IRAQ

" And now they're stunned. Forma Howie Carr's show officials question please to Thomas AB I would never let you down I never had gone. But I didn't work. There wouldn't have been an aide Michael Jackson's. Only France or hip -- it wouldn't do well most expensive car on -- regarded always. To put like Hitler type like given Donald Rumsfeld the and I goodness now how Lawrence. Aware that how -- So where they're 50 feet come off color guard W arterial radio networks."

" He's gone on vacation. This is nothing Nelson filling in for an. And privilege of being with you for this week -- we will be back next week after new year's we wish him good for the creation. In the meantime."

" Hope you'll join with us and participate in the program holiday season is over who have had -- with the family. Patron saint for christmas Santa clause general patron saint for -- but I understand this a very busy time a year or to bring back. But he really didn't want -- gone anyway. In any case for those of you by the way -- be -- you usually cannot. Much is being programmed to -- working whatever some people of the time off so they'll have a chance to join -- that's the phone number toll free is 18774694322 will be later on the program or a -- a -- by phone who's. Well interest in person she is that's -- strong views about what's going on with Islamic with the terrorists. Name's Bridget Gabriel she's written a book of why they hate point three words broke provocative title. I thought we begin today with. Iraq well before we do -- are trying not to do what I heard on the station just Lyle ago. And that is make Ted Williams in New York Yankee he was not for anybody was confused. We're trying to get those kinds of facts messed up. There was little lose lose lose over christmas because -- holiday everybody takes things off in the Islamic not a Holiday -- so. The news did come from Iran that a country can is intending to continue to promote its nuclear development program. To build nuclear weapons who if we can only. Be horrified as what would be the result that they got the those kinds of weapons and missile system to deliver them. Well of course it brings us back immediately to the dominant subject of Iraq. Talk about whether they should be an increase in troops which I guess is being contemplated by the bush administration. Interest enough was contemplated also by Harry Reid -- incoming democratic Majority Leader of the US senate. So the question of Iraq who what it's all about where to from here well here's some views. Iraq has been portrayed as -- we gotta fight for Iraqi democracy. And one of the reasons -- a lot of problems with that is I think we as America injured little tired. I'm shedding our blood and treasure on behalf in Iraqi people who don't seem to want to have democracy in the first place. There's another aspect to Iraq. At the end of September the head of Al Qaeda in Iraq said that 4000 foreign Al Qaeda combatants had been killed in the war. Now allergic to consider what that means. Fourth fellow Russian terrorists who went to Iraq for why they go to Iraq they went there to kill Americans. They showed -- didn't go Vickers they were concerned about democracy or they were interest in in trying to. To -- reinstitute the Saddam Hussein regime. They came there because they wanted to combat America -- if we weren't there how many of those people would come over here. We'll never know of course but keep in mind that 9/11 was perpetrated by -- 19 terrorists. The 2004 Madrid bombing by -- nine. And the -- September 2006 plot to explode British planes flying to the United States 19 people have been indicted 24000 have been killed maybe that's one of the reasons why. In the past five years and counting we have not had another major terrorist event on our -- Unfortunately George bush has not emphasized that that is one of the beneficial. Outcomes of the war in Iraq nine nor American servicemen and women have died there and -- regard regrettable. -- there's. There's nobody who's an American citizen while almost nobody reaction crazies here but almost nobody who doesn't lament the loss of life but that's what the military does for the United States. It protects the security. And civilian life. It's as lamentable as Wang. Firefighters -- would -- putting out a fire or. Police officers are killed in the line of duty to attend aspect of the war that we very rarely focus on. And yet is an important consideration. The -- get to Iraqi democracy in Iraq which was formed in 1921 by Winston Churchill. And that I think there's an assumption made by people in the United States. Everybody yearns for democracy I think was the premise that President Bush and when he went into Iraq. -- opposed this horrible dictator. And the people will rejoice and be interest in democracy. Wonderful premise. And actually is a fury of American foreign policy this goes back at least to Woodrow Wilson in World War I one of the slogans. For fighting World War I was to make the world safe for democracy. The theory was that if you got rid of totalitarian regimes. You don't look less likelihood of war. And World War I at the end we deposed the Kaiser the Soviets are fallen during the war. Austria Hungary empire was -- Turkish empire which was dismantled. -- it's an interesting theory and it's probably true. That democracies don't start major wars the problem is it's very hard to start democracies. The world you just tuning in if you don't recognize the voice that's understandable it's not how we talk how is on vacation this is -- Nelson. And I'll be with you for this week from Friday and then know how we will be back next week. And we'll go to the -- a little later on -- as a major -- in and of course people weighing in with regard to Iraq but let me continue now with the discussion about democracy. Think about it. We go our democracy in 1776 were the exception. 13 years later the French try 1789 was the storming of the Bastille it was a disaster. It led to a reign of terror -- isn't of people literally thousands of French people were executed by the guillotine. Napoleon emerged not as an elected president of French but it isn't an emperor a dictator. And by the way. The French then returned to the -- working on an off the of the last French teen -- only lifted 1870. The children how long it took for the French to get democracy French ruined by the way who they sent us a gift. On the -- boldly for the Centennial of our of our democracy the statue of liberty was a gift from French. Sometimes you -- French are not known for giving too many gifts to the United States nowadays but England France failed. Look at the Soviet Union dissolved the tried democracy in Russia are held like to export there's some kind of democracy now one minute -- royal lived -- As you go through. The years attempts at instituting democracy in short order as opposed to evolving over time like the British did. Those attempts by a larger failed. Of the magna Carter as I recall was in 1215 -- the British hundreds of years to evolve democracy. The United States is the exception not the rule one -- example that I do know. Is Japan 1945 but what happened there. We beat them into smithereens we -- we will occupying force he said this is what you gonna do. And so they did it. Japan also however had one important component that is missing in Iraq Japan was by a large homeward genius society. Now let's take a look at Iraq you have a bunch of people there. Who and blunt words Haiti each other's parts. You've got a whole bunch of religion not just SUNY and Shiite I mean there -- their -- within the centralized at 35 and one. In 15 another. They were repressed during the years of Saddam Hussein. Just as ethnic rivalries were were -- crash during the Communist rule in the Soviet Union. Another gun in the shootings -- the minority were ruling with -- an iron hand. And so now it's a chance to Arafat. This is nothing new look at us western civilization in the 15 hundreds. We have something called the 30 years war 30 years it went on and then there was -- that went on for returning years or so. And over watched these were Christians fighting Christians basically over whether the poll does or doesn't or shorter shouldn't or is or isn't. They both believed in Jesus Christ in the basic gospels but they have war's bloodshed. Horrible things happen the inquisition lasted for hundreds of years. Even appreciate you want to go back a little bit farther there was one instance where there was one -- percent from march and -- of the holy land to liberate the holy land. -- from the Muslims. And they came to one village in Europe. And and they were so eager they can couldn't wait at least -- of the inhabitants of the reports that the villagers running ankle deep in blood. Religion in the name of religion and here we are as you know -- Many people it's a religious experience in the name of religion many great and wonderful links have been done. Much charity. Extraordinary works of art music architecture. And horrible things have been perpetrated it is my guide not your god. And truth be told you know we have via the very -- of adult politeness in the United States now work tolerant. We'll know that the guy who's going to the other church is going to hell when this is over you know we may not talk a lot about it and then we know. Reno in the final analysis there's going to be I told you so. And those of mission one church going to be looking down from above those who are suffering and we want. The only difference with primitive religion a -- situation as they want to get should they are a little earlier. And so that's what it's all. You have the Shiites and the shoney's and there are various action and of course thing you have the various. Subsection I don't know all the move was -- homers and -- and other terminology all nosy killing each other. And then they'll likely continue to kill each other what's missing here. Democracy is not. It's not good enough to have a majority view of democracy. We have it here we -- very close elections 5149 sometimes -- and get the most votes. Those who does get the most was doesn't get the presidency right we don't have rioting in the streets. And the reason nation need more than majority you need consensus you need overwhelming consensus. Five cents on the part of the people that no matter what the differences are. And what evils of perpetrated against my group in the past we're going to do this. Under a regime of peace and we're going to have. Process law that will govern how we make transitions. There may be majority sentiment in Iraq for democracy but there is no consensus. An unlikely that there is going to be any in the foreseeable future. That means the theory of democracy that -- the fury of instituting democracy in Iraq. As mobile as it may be. Seems to me at this point to be doomed. What is curious to me. Is that George bush who had this vision for the Iraqi people. It's no credit for that for the nobility of the attack."

" We continue more fish and I'd like your views on -- as well -- eventually have to say all right democracy what do we do we extricate ourselves."

" We'll be back after we pay some of the bills somebody else in this is how he can harsher."

" Well welcome back and again I'll be seeing this through the week till you get tighter but for those who are just tuning in. -- it's for our program. We like to think that everybody tunes -- three sharpens days till seven we know some people coming go along the way. The horses run because it's not only can't how he's on vacation this week this is -- Nelson. And I'll be filling in for ham and we'll talk about various things over the course of the week I hope we started with -- Iraq. And again let me invite people to participate in shine in this one because I'm not sure that anybody has any answers yet. -- phone number is 18774694322. -- got to break the I -- let's go to the telephone lines now we go to Lou. -- good afternoon -- economic nausea"

" I heard a real good when concerning which -- secret weapon against. Most sectors a couple. And suppose it's worked in previous wars they're scared to you know you know they consider them on."

" Yeah ham ham and pork -- most lead in fear that if you're. They Moslem."

" patient and announced the fact that the is that. And it's here that was that was more efficient than in any but in the."

" As she saw another resolution do is we should make a grand announcement that somewhere in Iraq there's a Barry paid. And already there audio -- country in what. I think -- okay and then that'll do it they'll all just clear right out. What little I think you should call the White House and may you may solve the problem. It's actually not a bad idea that thanks for the call Lou I tell them of I have for some time argued that we -- institute -- disinformation campaign. And and lose call reminded me on it. We'll have we -- crafted video you know in this staining you can come up with videos that look very real. We want to show bin laden eating him. Or cavorting with -- American prostitutes. We'll have off my -- jobs saying something sacrilegious imported on the video now we've got you got a whole bunch of ignorant people. But they all of television sets right. You've seen it you don't need you drive with a poorest area -- deviant. So there will be here and people if they cheered on television they take is for real this initial segment of the population. And even if there's a debate about it think about this what do we debating. We're debating whether bin laden has committed sacrilege that's what you want to be debating. You want to be be debating whether your enemy is a bomb. You don't want to be debating whether you know when your enemies -- good guy or not this -- even political campaign right. If if the debate is -- did he or didn't need sleep Belushi you're in good shape as a candidate. So we could send these things all over to very easy disinformation campaign. And we ought to have you -- pictures of or or videos of some mu us saying that all the had a vision at all whatever people haven't. -- said that you know were wrong shouldn't be we shouldn't be having all these kinds of fight but just circulate them around. On the white house of course you have no comment we don't talk about such things going not. It doesn't cost much we've got the technology to do it don't need more troops on the doing what the troops at Charlotte are there. Now Italy and saying it of course with a smiling broadly the smile my voice when you think about it wind knocked. Propaganda is used all the time little lies they tell about a -- An actual would be convincing. And let me tell you we can make a very good video. Right ten pigs are only available we've got enough tape of of bin laden so we can make it make it stick. I liked actually that solving all world crisis next. By the way a bit before I go back to the telephone lines and world I just want to emphasize to go back to the serious thread of argument that I was. I was offering before. That George bush has received no credit for trying to have democracy in Iraq. Let's take a look at what's happening in Iraq we removed Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein was a vicious dictator he's killed 300000 of his own people. He wasn't any. There are worse than Slobodan Milosevic we went into Kosovo in 1999 to do the same thing for humanitarian reasons. To get rid of him. We try to put in democracy what are we get ford. We get hatred and anger from the Arabs not ever -- in the militias Arab but the Arabs and other countries in the Middle East. There is an Arab democracy in the Middle East. We're going to try to have the first one. Thank you think that somebody would -- G noble effort wonderful idea no don't just the opposite. Always there is condemnation in all terrible Americans are. I don't know what really terrible for for having higher aspiration for the Iraqis and for the Arabs than they have for themselves. His Porsche true Islamic theocracy is antithetical to democracy. To be extreme Islamic elements wouldn't be in favor of this -- to -- actually elders might -- There's dissolving Elson filling in for Howie -- let's go back to the telephone lines our phone number you'd like a drawing whether it's toll free 18774694322. And Randy you're next on WR KO over low or moderate on -- Mohammed."

" The next. I you know I'm -- you good good. You know not a good idea to be ideas to make these kind of radio that he thought about was that. Because you know. Debate that level of the Sullivan Latin. No one -- produce people who do it in and it really it would it would really did you know why -- US government he would he'd be -- it was important what is it only get -- get an -- United States and in. In a Democrat a -- the war let's build a contradiction to administration right yeah."

" kids bin Laden's kids."

" Bin laden kids which it was it was taken out of cargo jet today that it world trade penalty -- And have been Obeid bin Laden's ability ability that there widely development in important it is not a country."

" So let me understand this Mohammed you think that bin laden hasn't done anything -- he's a nice fellow and we should just leaving peace within his that it."

" I don't think he's guilty -- brought a bombed the world trade and deployed in America is."

" Now let's try it just happened a couple of planes went off course that day and flew into the building does that change."

" Well -- what is it is --"

" I don't know what Lowell who did it -- Mohammed you know there were you had 19 yeah he sure does. Should do when -- Mohammed New York. If you're gonna make up things like this. Then you are proof positive as to why I should have no palms of making up things about bin laden the fact is bin laden -- America all week."

" You listened. P this nonsense about how the United States did it is absurd there's a scintilla of evidence and even if he only -- particular theory in Lawton has threatened action claimed credit for the for the tower bombing the you know the World Trade Center. But he certainly has threatened other things to a guy like you -- living in this country you're American citizen."

" It's different at all -- yeah sure if I noticed. And I -- it in eight Eilat deputy -- notice you believe they'll do you. Maybe he'll look it's a welcome used the system that country it -- because I don't know where it will -- you know no. Let me just tell from Africa former -- of the -- firmware you don't know where they were --"

" Mohammed I'll tell you what you don't have to no way they weren't. You've got all the countries in the world to live. If you think this place is so bad you don't try one of the other places an incidentally why you're over there. You speak out against the Columbine or go to -- and speak out against the government and see how long. You're allowed to spew whatever you want. You enjoy the freedom to this country at the very link you can do is check your facts and not just make up everything and spare me the business. About how your forebears came over and changed. That was hundreds of years ago -- over it. Everybody he traces his generation far enough back has some problems let me tell you how my father grandfather and great great grandfather suffered. Everybody can point to an excuse get over -- body. You have all the advantages of America and the possibility of doing what you want to do it's time to get on with it. You know make something of yourself and stop pointing the finger about volume -- used for failure. Okay -- thanks for the call and get some for two foolish and bundling okay. You know if you think is about place and the lodge really good guy go -- him. Little cave in Pakistan."

" Frankly I think both countries will be better off. This is on the Nelson phone number 187746943 to do we have time for one before the break we do okay. Randy now is Randy you're on the air"

" I -- to follow Mohammad you all its. I'd get a fair rate back up or check out what those caves in Afghanistan with. Mike changes to a little bit the current law -- Anyway I have a come back and by the way appreciate the covers cities they controlled part of the of the problem and that you know I can't see how old George bush -- president could get. Credit for his vision because it was Tibet Asia I'm ever remember this subject coming up many art during his father's administration like why did we go further. And you know one answer on the surface what that it was that the EP UN sanctions mandated that but the real reason was. The likelihood of -- were being built I mean what he'd -- the current president. -- about that vision I don't know."

" Well you're right he didn't know we'll talk about that on the other side Randy thanks for the call we'll be back in the little -- this is Don Nelson on the highly conscious. This is Don Nelson filling in for how we can always hope you join us. The war views of the world like Mohammed or some other points of view of -- talking about. Iraq I mean the point that George bush deserves more credit."

" Credit for seeing that there was the possibility of democracy well maybe there was the possibility of at least in -- the possibility. And for those you've got some thoughts on this here's a phone number 18774694322 I should say also. In you can email us how we car at WR KO dot com. As soon -- figure out I've seen email that you sent below their worth we will read them and you can -- access. Tumbling at 6177793467. But sources that talk shows who we hope that so you call in let's go back to the telephone lines. And next up was bill good afternoon bill -- on WR KO."

" The first central -- bushel may -- that we wouldn't America which ultimately is -- bastion of freedom. And people all over the world for 300 usual whatever we want freedom come here that a -- optional."

" The people who want to live in freedom come to this country. -- yes."

" In poll on any other got weather in the Arab world. Country cool all -- to all of you -- although remove dictate your -- change people because. We don't like that we never bet -- this -- last voters it because we. But strange is that every country people shouldn't I what kind of government they have."

" Well of course it's a dictatorship that people can't decide can. Well that's why protect only we we we do that by voting that we don't have a dictatorship do you understand the difference."

" All of you being America and dictatorship we could never become a debacle."

" That's right unless we overthrew by force the dictatorship that you have you noticed how dictators are reluctant to leave office because there's a plebiscite. Let me ask you another question. And I think in 1999. Bill Clinton led this country into armed conflict in Kosovo. To remove a vicious dictator named Slobodan Milosevic did you objective that."

" I have -- Any one I'd like freedom like America and I like being -- with a trip but it we have. Well thank you Arafat yeah every other country if people if -- kinda got -- what kind of leadership they want to know robot. There aren't fixed interest for all anybody who always -- and why people on the -- APEC."

" While they hate us because we're we're we're trying to deposed dictatorship turned ugly UC bill. -- tried again."

" pretty bad at the blue or pink but what you want to explore debt freedom."

" Bill any or gamble or you didn't hear me either case I -- and that is that if people in other parts of the world. Are suffering under dictatorship by definition by definition they cannot institute the government they would like this is not a matter. On G they chose a government they voted in and I we don't like. This is people who can't vote at all. It's true that we cannot eliminate all the dictatorships in the world it's not practical something we can't we couldn't knock off the Soviet Union during the Cold War. But every once -- we do it. I think we should at least get credit for trying New York feature this year which is that some we should leave it alone because Saddam Hussein. Why is the legitimate in quotes government of the Iraqi people. Is downright absurd. He was not the legitimate government of the 300000 people he slaughtered nor of the Kurds on which he used chemical weapons. -- on the people who were tortured and put to death because they they wouldn't allow. Saddam Hussein's followed sons to rape their lives this is not government of the people bill."

" Well I'm all I can do they want -- can you -- democracy."

" One dictatorship that became a democracy. He's very difficult to do that that's exactly the point I was making before but I will be will site. the United States of America in 1776 but dictatorship under the kind of king of England king George and also Japan in 1945. Which was ruled by an emperor and hierarchy and became a democracy thanks for the call them. Our phone number 18774694322 you can argue about whether or not this was a worthwhile expenditure of American resource as. At the beginning it looked like it had a chance now where that's for sure about democracy. But to come to say that somehow we shouldn't be here because we should've left Saddam Hussein in place. If you take a very ugly. His blaring in Stalinist view of the world that any dictator deserved to remain in power because he got the power. Let's go back to the telephone lines now sell -- next on WR KO"

" conduct its. -- afternoon I -- is actually -- she wouldn't -- accused of issuing new Internet -- and tell you for taking political. My pleasure because some reduced -- those cities usually they're not going to."

" I mean because -- dogs and Mark when I saw like come up on the screen I was at a technical at all."

" They can do it like -- they can raise. You learn and you -- and these actually grow roots and that -- police tactics and discussed look at that. Ari I can teach you actually subtitle."

" Let me -- is all yours neighbor you lived in the palace next door."

" Warmer what are you leaving their concerts in next to a large yacht for a ride you try to be good -- if you try to -- to get out. And who caiso that -- guarded the media who called it's future. That was positions and that's -- that's something yeah. Human -- and looked into another human being and believe me or not quite exactly -- to -- patrol that they. With the people died in what it's all across. -- and about how political one other we're used to it Saddam Hussein's chief 360000 of its own people. There and they -- or allied forces believe in our talks. I agree it likely is a bar she transit problems are Kiet and keep my question. Who aren't these people blood is -- Moral -- we still were raped and killed the bad and they can soldier. Is that we are gorgeous you know -- rightful -- teammate Gordon -- I'm quite happy -- put -- You do -- person. That's treatment Kendall didn't want to be right off so the neighborhood of -- done now you don't want to recall -- see it that deep discount afraid of I really can't get -- being tools you know and also we don't want it -- you -- that you -- more -- You won't bring them as -- and go see it forward then but we do us any deterrent of freedom and they can be."

" It got to sell uranium right. -- you the on line viewer I shall not calling from RNC must be here in the United States right."

" I'm looking United States and Canada."

" candidate. And how are things in Iran do you support -- job."

" Our our lord of the people -- it's what you are used to borrow 21 years ago. You are located so prevalent in some ice skate escape from one. Okay about courses they cab okay. -- Tenneco. Aren't I hit the opposition which they're both you you're our daughters. -- people look toward reached orbit the agenda can be repaired and in this sense -- that. I don't see what -- how to learn who we are. I thought that I rather too cool but no it doesn't do well in about who people sold the month I'm going back yard."

" To help them build nuclear weapons. To help them build nuclear weapons."

" She lost their -- I'm happy you're you've been dubbed the nuclear weapons. You don't goal ensure extroverted and moblog and they can be known to date if anybody seemed. Can you own oil equipment in any other Croce that distance to go. You don't know then group themselves United States said that you don't want that not stupid Normal and -- and."

" I didn't need it more important than what we're here. But some -- got a crop."

" Yeah well I know that and and you know that this is that this is the theory that my dinner job doesn't mean it. And that is really -- the -- reminiscent of Hitler in 1939 whenever Chamberlain went over. Peace in our time Hitler really doesn't mean it I think -- Monday in his job doesn't mean it let me go back pure question he raised the point. About people killed during the war he used the figure 600000 I've heard that figure bandied about I think is grossly inflated but there's no question but that people have died. With regard to this war. The intention of the united states of course was to come in and have democracy without so much bloodshed most of the people who have been killed. Having killed because insurrections that have been going on with the sectarian violence. I find it hard to believe that you would really suggest by implication that we were better off leaving the Iraqi people under. The brutal form of Saddam Hussein. But if that's what you are suggesting then -- I have a different point of view as for the soldiers that you mention with regard to the -- noticed. They are being charged with rape. We don't know yet what the end result will be of those trials in the appeals we should suspend judgment but noticed when our soldiers get out of line -- the United States take action. For all the people who Al Qaeda celebrates the hating Americans. And killing in in other respect the bombings of the World Trade Center I remember the video that I saw of the Palestinians dancing in the streets 9/11. When it was announced that 3000 Americans had been killed. So there's an enormous difference in attitude year of course in a wartime situation there are some things that will go wrong. And nobody was interested in having Iraqis die. And maybe in the final analysis this experiment to try to get the Iraqis democracy is not going to work. But it did work you know in Kosovo and at least it was worth the effort deposing the dictator. Is always worth it would have been worth deposing Adolf Hitler the question is what we should do now but I notice you do the same thing. You blame America. Instead of keeping in mind that it was America was trying to bring democracy to Iraq which the Iraqis who -- themselves. Somebody else and this is how we talk show"