Paul Kengor

" Then a."

" And now it's time. -- howry cars show -- are back passed away at the age of 89 he will be remembered obviously is one of the winningest coaches of all time guiding the Celtics to 8 straight NBA titles and having a hand in all 16 of."

" This morning -- big boom could -- maybe do you want us to -- the answer of course -- we want the United States and we are Americans there's no doubt about that you that we -- required -- all of us with all due respect this is -- This is this is reporting the news which is what we do the most expensive car on our -- at. Howie -- and there's nothing in there about raids on brothels of wolf couldn't talk about a children's book for a minute we can't talk about children. But I assured that he's like 15 I just I just had a ten minutes I just wanted to clarify what's in the news second -- in this -- business this now. How -- friends and -- orbit absolutely yes on the rear OK I'm off color guard WR KO radio network."

" Why -- 774694322187746 4322 lists of toll free number of how we are sure if you like to join us. If you would like to would check out check out the website or listen to the show on the Internet go to -- dot com powered car dot com click on the live audio streaming if you listen to the entire program all day long on the Internet Jericho -- watch. You order my book the brothers Bulger and you also want to welcome our next guest here and it's called a crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism it's written by EO Paul candor. And the -- amateur the resume interest in this book and the reason he's on the show was because the one part of the book. And -- this is this book is about the obviously Ronald Reagan and the the end of the Cold War but the the author who was a political science professor Grove City College has some interesting very interesting information about the senator Ted Kennedy. And Ted Kennedy's role in these years professor can -- thanks for being with us here on the Howie -- show."

" Thank you how it is beyond thing."

" Well listen tell us tell us about that you don't again it isn't it interesting that that that this is all over the Internet and a little bit and talk radio but. You what you -- your garage you you're amazing discovery doesn't seem to have gotten very far in the mainstream media."

" Yeah I -- absolutely amazing and it and the fact. I history is repeating itself because those documents which is that may 14 1983 KGB document written by the head of the KGB -- And sent to the head of the Soviet Union area drop off. And that the subject head on -- in regard to senator regarding senator Kennedy's request to the general secretary of the Communist Party why he had drop off. And the document was actually I can't claim. Too much credit here for the revelation the the London times first reported on February 2 1992 a reporter named Tim Sebastian sounded in the founded in the Soviet archives. And it never made it across the Atlantic in the New York Times none of the major."

" pre Internet days -- so you know it would no one you know unless somebody clip that I papered senate to somebody else that's the only way you know it."

" Well well and what what's funny is the same sources that that that ignored is that. By ignoring it now my book --"

" Harder it's just harder now to ignored actually. Harder -- what is so so to -- some background here you know obviously Ronald Reagan he came to came to power he wanted to win the Cold War. That's you know on life and and he made it very cool he made that very clear and died Jimmy Carter had a -- the entire free world in he's in retreated look like were being out actually it at all at all. All parts of the globe Nicaragua Afghanistan etcetera and Ronald Reagan comes in and he says he says you know we're going to have a Star Wars where row we're not going to back down and in and Ted Kennedy was infuriated wasn't me."

" Yet it was Kennedy was worried more about Ronald Reagan and I think it was the Soviet leadership in fact that is the direct quotation from the document. The head of the KGB says Senator Kennedy is quote unquote very impressed with and drop off. But on the other hand it's clearly very very unimpressed with Ronald Reagan. And if it isn't for people is to to have forgotten about this today but in the -- and in the 1980s that I'm the document 1983 Ronald Reagan was absolutely -- I mean they caricature -- this guy stupid bumbling ex actor who aren't days when he knew what he was doing could blow up the world in this for the guy who was dangerous. And according to that -- well Senator Kennedy was quote on quote very troubled by the state of US Soviet relations. And I had to be accord and that most teams who have have blamed that on -- not a drop off of an -- if you go by other things -- that it that Hyman wrote. Including march 1984 Rolling Stone these. Where where Kennedy said that that Reagan and his team are quote talking peace in 1984 -- prey eludes to making war 1985 on --"

" Of course would have been a nuclear war and -- can't talk about a an intemperate statement that I mentioned totally. Erroneous."

" And then the next line and that article he he said that there's an administration whose officials have spoken openly of old winnable nuclear conflict. So he's so it very clear that that that the way you wrote he's afraid of Reagan not just starting the war but a nuclear war."

" We're screen DePaul -- he's the author of the crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism and injures were talking about this letter that that Ted Kennedy Rea road to war hello. Hello to the head. Of the Soviet Union in the 1983 -- basically asking for -- assistance in defeating it defeating Ronald Reagan in the 1984 election and now by the way your book is published by harpercollins so this is not this is not some John birch society there are current or anything like that --"

" I would I would never report says that I was an absolutely certain about it and that -- my -- that the London tigers broke it even before I did so you know a reporter from the times is now BBC reporter found a document when he dead. And it was first reported a few dozen Soviet scholars we have spread it spread it to the archives got their own copy -- and the thing has been out there are circulating in PDF format I've got the original and the translation been out there for years that not until now is some but he credited the unit."

" Prior so how does he get guy I know but I just want you to explain how. How did he get this a letter to the to the Kremlin."

" Well what Kennedy didn't write it it was it was written by by victor Trevor -- the head of the KGB and of what happened was that there was they've a contact the contact was John -- The former democratic senator from Carol."

" write some of gene Tunney the former heavyweight -- exactly yeah."

" And he he would is that the Senate from 197177 and he was a former boss or roommate of Ted Kennedy another playboy very very good friends good bodies. That people can understand -- our -- what guys and give them not to have how Hollywood. What went went thought he was talking in the have a Hyannis port -- that where does that come from Brazil is an amazing thing in fact Ted introduced honey it was older brother JFK at one point in -- his middle name was Eric. And JFK that I doubted that the middle name -- you're gonna -- like Russia"

" though if that -- as John -- got elected his defeated in 77 and then in the early 1980s apparently as accord at a document Connie was that there by -- two -- this message --"

" He he was his -- he was Ted Kennedy square warrior to the credible."

" Yes and and the London times interviewed on me. In February 1990 human -- he admitted making the in his own words quote some 15 trip quote the Soviet Union during the time where is he reported he represented the use of certain senators. We support all -- net -- Those so does quite likely happened what more volatile almost certainly more than just this one time and there are other documents that suggest that Connie did it on behalf of Kennedy and march of 1980 when the target that time was not --"

" Carter Carter is called -- a fellow Democrat."

" Jeff that's and that's really really quite fascinating and that the march of 1980. When -- Kennedy of course is he in the Democratic Party nomination."

" Right right in -- and running -- really port campaign in getting his but kicked across the country. Yeah but he so he says the so what -- what -- done in 1980."

" Well in 1980. And investments from the much broken papers which which were reported by the Woodrow Wilson that are the Cold War international history project in these these is that not exactly. As you can you put it about to John characters is out there mostly liberal Democrat professors from ivy league school. And the token papers that this alleges that party went to Moscow on march 5 1980 and and in this case Kennedy was reportedly blaming not the Kremlin and Leonid Brezhnev. Four for their aggression and for escalating tensions in Afghanistan. But was instead of worried about Carter's response which according."

" This is what responds yeah at the -- accord them a token somehow and the aggression here on behalf of on Carter's part."

" Me because we're -- if you we were trying to ship a few rifles to the was shot dean why I was at an aggression and the."

" And even never barely doing that and they had invaded in December of 79 and that this peaceful Soviet it here after invading Afghanistan they're going to be there for the next ten years. And."

" slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Afghan."

" Striving five or six million into refugee camp in Pakistan."

" And Ted -- Ted was very concerned about the our aggressions out."

" So so so so the one document alleges that it happened first fruit honey. With Carter in any other document that I have alleges that it that it happened to Reagan's brutality and 1983."

" Oh in and -- it did it has Ted Kennedy ever commented on any of these these these revelations."

" There's also issued a statement saying that that that this was way off the mark in which which means I'm assuming that the interpretation. Is off the mark -- about the case then then chipper -- was off the mark because -- it was quoted -- and very interesting statement that Senator Kennedy was supportive of Ronald Reagan's policy. And then they -- it ever be working -- helped Reagan with Gorbachev. In the the Moscow summit in Washington summit. But but that's just -- side issue because of course Kennedy's support what Reagan -- with Gorbachev everybody the question was years later yeah the question here is what happened within drop off in 1980 tree. I bet that the question."

" I want it he wanted to and drop off two according to a memo we want to attempted to go on network TV unit in the American were arranged these these appearances on network TV form gee I wonder who they would use -- then and then and then he could basically campaign against Ronald Reagan in 1984."

" What the document says two things one Senator Kennedy would go to Moscow to -- drop all would come to the United States. And even says that they could put in drop off in touch with high level media figures such as Walter Cronkite Barbara Walters"

" the right."

" We're both actually noted by name in the memo. And -- that they've because look at."

" wasn't available at the I'm it was Phyllis who -- you."

" According to do that separate top of the problem from Kennedy's perception. But the Soviets was a communication problem. Because a separate output of Reagan as good at propaganda the -- tally because the Soviet made their way to get a good at propaganda about -- department of abject -- right -- they -- the attack there -- propaganda. But there -- you know Reagan is -- Reagan has got to propaganda. And if they can just get past this smokescreen by at Reagan and communicate directly with the American people encounter these these alleged Reagan militaristic bellicose aggressive policy then everything would be much better and and better yet with the election coming up in the in the."

" eternity to turn around talking -- we got phone lines people want to talk fiasco about this great okay we'll be right back with Paul candor the author of the crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism -- together amazing memo from the KGB through the two and -- how -- car"

" 18774694322 witnesses Paul can gore. He's a professor and he's written a new book crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism he's gotten some his hands on some months. Some Kremlin documents from the specifically want from the head of the KGB to Yuri. Andrew -- was head of the who who's ahead of the Soviet union for a little while in the early 80s and basically it's -- saying that Ted Kennedy wants to once and drop off to -- helped him in his it is basically a campaign to unseat -- Reagan in 1984 election by the way if you like to leave a message on the trump like today's the day call 61777934696177793469. We may -- up."

" Clear message later hour of the show next hour of the show. Today we go are called seer -- professor and of people want to talk to your website where they can actually look at the document of the translation of the."

" You know I I actually don't have the post I'm sorry about that."

" All okay yeah you should get up there -- would love to just see it you know justice. Just to check it out so it was there with a ready response it took to the KGB document it is rarity did anything come of that are are up."

" Yeah that's a very good question but I don't think so and I'm also assuming an aviation in this film but I'm assuming that if this ever went through -- the Soviets took up a softer than that Kennedy would go public what but what had happened but you know that's that's that's beyond the text of the document and that's something that I don't know for sure."

" And end. There's no is there's no entry is has that the New York Times called you about this."

" Now I haven't had a call from a single so called mainstream media source not want its its really astounding it's."

" Hi who's the near what's the nearest thing you've had two that an inquiry from the mainstream press."

" Well all act. Let's see I've had but it ain't I I've been on fox semi and that's that that's about I -- I -- send an Op Ed piece that I wrote on its actually to the New York Times Op Ed editor David Shipley is very fair. And he said that he liked that a lot but he didn't think he'd be able to get it in the paper. Yeah underline that -- also a sense that the peace to the Boston -- And I haven't heard a single response I I Udinese."

" We hear the crickets plays another week with this is your response from the gloves."

" That's out -- and in fact I I brought the peace on Reagan and the Kennedys because there's actually some so moving information on Reagan and JFK and rfk and -- all that the -- I emailed it to him didn't hear anything followed up I think it was Thursday and -- can you at least tell me you know you've got this -- And not even an acknowledgment so I didn't most most sources at least give you a polite no -- they were not said that not think it's like as senate two it into the glove box somewhere."

" I don't -- correct. Let's take some calls with -- gore by and he's the author of the crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism he can order off of our website and by the way it's it's Regan Regan books that Judith Regan that's harpercollins what is which is owned. By Rupert Murdoch which show who wants fox. And by the way his he also to New York Post which today endorsed Hillary Clinton for the United States senate -- not exactly again I mean Rupert -- report that goes where the with power as so it's not this is again I repeat it's not idea. It's not a former rightwing publishing now"

" not a -- I wouldn't do something that's you know it has just done to excite right wingers I mean an -- sought somebody asked me when he mailers said. But what this is an example of your bias as a historian to include us assure you can be immediate is that all the -- first story and not to conclude it. I mean I've got about a thousand documents from Soviet archives and media archives and undertake this one from Ted Kennedy and say -- this one now I may have led I'd have to be going to hit"

" it's just it's so typical -- then of course no no word from any networks or anything nobody except for the fox you know obviously. Bob your next with how we car and upper faster Paul -- your go ahead Bob."

" Appalled by the way opposed thing people should understand the civic Detroit and started that the 1970s was the chief librarian all the dark guys the first directorate of the KGB which is for intelligent that's right when they moved about a Moscow in the late 70s. These are every single file you're timing -- kind of ironic because in the last couple weeks. But the a lot of articles because of the 50 anniversary last week was of the Hungarian uprising yet so they don't have one thing in common they leave out one of the most important players level of that. It was a Soviet ambassador to convince the Kremlin to send in the tanks when reports first came in and -- he. -- to the Soviet ambassador after what happened what was going on and people -- I don't know -- momma please some misunderstanding what he couldn't anymore Nagy went into hiding and afterwards there was a Soviet ambassador. Look at this in the amount of hiding that all is forgiven it is that I had a few details at -- before kangaroo court and executed for his efforts the Soviet ambassador to new moniker and some circles. Bloody Yuri and -- 11 years -- chair of the KGB 24 years ago it became -- improve our."

" Ted -- Bob Bob wait a second you're -- overwhelming -- with names so that the guy the guy who was in charge basically of suppressing the Hungarian revolt in 1956 is -- that Ted Kennedy was sucking up -- their friends are -- him an inviting him to come to the US -- Walter Cronkite Barbara Walters."

" The very same one that is exactly at all."

" Well and rugged yet that even more interesting twist of fate Ronald Reagan as an actor is hosting G feeder which is a TV show on CBS the ball places. And Ronald Reagan goes on his -- show at an at the end out of when he gives his customary by -- has bought for cheap products -- says. My fellow Americans -- about a 160000 Hungarian refugees right now other looking for a home which which you please send any -- any donations to cancer to the Red Cross into the church or synagogue of your choice they need our help and this is probably the great communicators. First ever outreach -- in the TV bully pulpit to to -- eastern Europeans the first that anymore."

" Well that's that's amazing facial cobalt thanks for pointing that out -- your next with how we card professor Paul Ken -- the author of the crusader go ahead bill."

" You book him things come full auto source or about a 100000 more likely to -- the college scene as a -- the other side thanks so basically what we have as a -- named Ted Kennedy in the Senate who. At the height of the Cold War was working with the enemies of his government. What would know about that -- I don't want him or killing or anyone else in power again because I mean that the Democrats -- accepts an analyst we got what they give."

" only about 50 points ahead in the polls here if they if they even bothered to take a poll but they don't because he's so far had."

" Yes -- fact another email I got was from somebody say you're doing this to try to defeat Ted Kennedy there's just your mind that says I can that's evidence that sense spied for the KGB you know probably wouldn't do any thing. I don't know I don't I don't think it's gonna make any difference."

" Now thanks for the call bill Michael your next with how we card Paul candor of the author of the crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism go ahead Michael."

" you know. I don't know -- don't know planned by helicopters late 80s that my instructor took the other or less that you like the program -- whereas before we start the web but they don't jump of one state we had to -- torn island and there was some -- a woman's the enemy the island but this will also always supported. Attitude of guys were joined the army and security what the Elian all this -- other helicopter."

" Probably the niceties of violent street they go --"

" Late summer of it. While that there are pictures on John Tony's web site of Tunney and -- together on its head shot what their wives -- ex wives all kinds of pictures I mean they they were they were their bodies they went skiing together they they wrote that hiking everything unit."

" Today that they appear to have been drinking Michael."

" My -- books. But I don't like sailor."

" Do you think they what you think Ted Kennedy want to learn a lesson but they -- young woman to an island. -- thanks for the call Michael 18774694322 -- you're next with how we car and Paul -- the author of the crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism go ahead jazz."

" Yeah Howard -- I don't it was important to question was actually asked the question was answered. By your previous -- that I was wondering why you didn't come up a little thing for the October surprise."

" Well -- actually -- the book was we began sending it to the press in June so this has been out for quite awhile and it -- the October surprise we wouldn't -- it till October that we we started start sending it out quite a while ago if anyone knows anything about publishing -- books -- the best time to sell books. And so that's why this comes out now."

" Thanks for the call jazz 18774694322 but this isn't a big story like you know the the emails and mark Foley says no to some page you know"

" they've made no no one seemed to care CNN doesn't seem to care CBS to care about."

" It's it's it's just them it's a very."

" It is it's not the most remarkable cases of bias that I personally ever experience it's just it's it's stunning there is a blackout on in 1992 and the only reason anybody hearing about it today is because of something called the Internet and talk radio and something called Fox News otherwise no one would know anything about."

" I saw him I saw on the Internet I saw an editorial in the -- Waterbury, Connecticut paper rather nice and always believed we gotta get this guy on the air. But you know. Uh huh it's just I kid you know it just seems like you know they have so much video of of all these guys I mean it's it's not like they don't have the pictures to illustrate the story right and you say I'm sure you'd be willing to provide them with the actual document."

" Happy -- yeah yeah it's not it's no problem at all and an epidemic and it's probably if it's not like other -- urged newsletter broke this double wondered how Meehan so so what's the allegation that the 1000 times -- in 1992 in just because maybe some reporter there I didn't like Senator Kennedy he went and typed up the document type up phony they put an end at times and you know just just heard her head in 1992 it's ridiculous."

" But on the other hand of course CBS to -- with a phony document in another 2004 election to try to defeat the president of the United States Peter your next. Peter you're next with Howie Carr and Paul -- go ahead Peter."

" Joke or it. Escape question you know it there's no less statue limitations in the past retreated into all the documents present -- all the previous -- that he was greater about a noisy burglary committed three."

" I I don't know about that do you want to stick around talking like the top of the hour we'll take some more calls we'll talk anger the author of the crusader Ramallah -- Yeah."

" 1877469432 to win this one more segment is Paul tender these days of political science professor he's the author of what god Ronald Reagan and he's got a new book out called crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall."

" Communism then all you may not have heard about it it's got a very interesting section. In which he he's he's found a memo that was first reported by the London times in 1992 and you never heard of it continue for governor of it how why I daresay. That does it from the -- the chief of the KGB to the to the leader of the Soviet Union at the time saying that Ted Kennedy wanted him to come to the US and and speak about the it's beat it give his side of the Afghanistan in the -- that -- war and the Cold War in general and that Ted Kennedy would be willing to introduce and drop off -- was. Two Barbara Walters in Walter Cronkite apparently among others and and it's just it's just amazing to that it just has gotten any publicity -- Judith -- right."

" Yes what -- the publisher."

" she's a -- OK -- we know she's got a lot of clout you know in in media circles but apparently and he she hasn't been able to what to sort of break the break the wall here --"

" Well I mean we did what we always do we have we send send these out send out press releases you know the -- depending on what they like and what they want to report what they don't want to report they decide. And they've decided that this is I guess just not an interest in story."

" I don't I don't a Shiite east. She had an author who wrote a book or similar to a one Cairo earlier this year. And out of the main revelation in his book was that the that he had tried to kill me from a graveyard -- and I got to be the lead story on 60 minutes yeah I'm sure I'm a very interesting person all that but somehow it doesn't strike me as just as historically important as as Ted Kennedy's overtures to the Kremlin."

" as -- 60 minutes right now is planning a false statement"

" 1877469432 to -- Ted Kennedy turn up in any of the other variety any of the other row of memos that you saw."

" Well that that's the only one that that that I scenes that's out now on the stroke again those documents have been reported against the Woodrow Wilson's manner as project there that this is the only one that I have then and I haven't you know pursued the issue pursuit Kennedy and then I just. I present the document as part of a historical narrative of the Reagan presidency and in fact -- I don't really even judge it in the book I just reported knowing that it speaks for itself. And I think that frankly that they Kennedy team if they decided they needed to respond to this which they won't quit no one's going to report on it. But but if that if they did respond to -- I think they'd be better off arguing sump into the effect hey look this was a really dangerous time -- thought that Reagan was out of control that was not an uncommon position you know he was willing to do extraordinary measures to stop what he thought was going to be nuclear war but but you know they haven't said that and they don't need to because because there's there's about black out."

" But takes -- more calls here at that 18774694322 Dave you're next with how we car and Paul -- the author of the crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism go ahead Dave."

" Hi -- Dave -- occasionally with the professor I congratulate you on focused on -- when he was first appointed Presidio and I faced in back. And guess what prince compliments have been over not only the history Hungary. In fact do it backlash in Czechoslovakia the in Edmonton and incidents of Poland's and it's amazing that any US senator would not have to -- available to be looked at what they would country. Just an absence of knowledge of history -- then going to do something like that."

" Yes and look at it's a good thing and drop off died. And that we didn't fact get Mikhail Gorbachev who who who was misinterpreted in his own right in fact one of the documents that our government has just declassified 2000. Has so -- Ronald Reagan visiting with Gorbachev at the Moscow summit may 31 1988 and Reagan says to Gorbachev's states he said hey last year last June I was at the Brandenburg gate I said carried out on the law. I'm asking you now faced face man to man was believed carried -- the Berlin wall. And Gorbachev said now I do not agree with that. And about three or four years later Gorbachev won the Nobel Peace Prize. And and the rest is history"

" 18774694322 but the again knee you know Kennedy wasn't the only -- I remember congressman from master chooses -- commitment Roloson was pushing for the nuclear freeze and and the -- was that we -- it was a -- time -- later -- federal prison he was taking all kinds of bribes and everything but you know he just decided that his -- but his -- constituents just wanted him to -- Reagan -- an attack -- could be the the Star -- build -- and called horrible -- up. And that's that this is the way they operated they didn't they didn't Q you don't I can imagine a guy like nick map rules or Ted Kennedy caring enough to do when he researched they just knew they just knew viscerally which side they were often."

" Yet end in. Remember rally that's all the guys who went went to Nicaragua to meet with Daniel Ortega."

" but yet I would be his nephew Joe Kennedy."

" A -- and I I believe that John Kerry yeah and it had gone to Nicaragua so you know -- away that this is not all that different that but that reaching out to -- drop off in the height of the Cold War that may be unprecedented the other -- suggests dues -- I don't know the street I'm not qualified to make that statement I don't make that charge all it was probably unprecedented"

" what you know again to -- I think back to war another Massachusetts senator Dave and I Walter ms. not a well known part of World War II history but. He was he he was caught and in a Nazi run male brothel on the Brooklyn waterfront in combat and that was. -- you know -- just been reelected and he served out the remainder of his German it was kind of hushed up by FDRJ Edgar Hoover but -- that was the end of his career army anyway he wasn't passing secrets to the Nazis he was just -- in a Nazi it one of our enemies honey traps I guess you'd call."

" Death the other honey trap an and that does not about dead Ted Kennedy's career you know that's that's for certain"

" 18774694322 Bob you're next with how we car and Paul Campbell author of the crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism go ahead Bob."

" Wonderful law and is mr. -- in his family to be considered -- points in trading and number kill what is in our article it it. These people -- am in charge United States. Most abolish optimistic candidate who would for the turnout so what do any foreign power so -- could stay --"

" While they're there a parallel here between Reagan and bush is that what you're dealing with you've got somebody on the far left it with Ted Kennedy in the early 1980s. Who looked at the world situation and said you know the enemy here the part of the problem at least the problem is not the enemy abroad but it's the conservative Republicans sitting in the White House. And now today you've got many people on the left to say that you know the conservative Republican in the White House George W bush is a greater threat to peace in the Middle East then not Saddam Hussein everyone. So so there's really the same kind of poor judgment and by the way on the -- Lisa -- I would note that it's very interesting that that when when Richard Nixon ran against tellem get taken Douglas the so called pink lady yes they Kennedy's John Kennedy is father. They cross party lines back Bobby Kennedy was working for Joe McCarthy they supported Nixon and no liberal actor and Californian named Ronald Reagan supported Ellen get taken Douglas. So Reagan was wants to the last of JFK and rfk moved to the right and and Ted Kennedy is is way off to the last of his brothers."

" And Bobby and Bobby Kennedy DE did it in secret but everybody says he went out to war two at Wisconsin for the funeral of -- because he admired him right to the bent bitter -- even after it was censured and I became a hopeless alcoholic."

" At and I I believe this it is is Kathleen Kennedy counts not. I believe that Joe McCarthy news across."

" All I know I didn't know that that's in the one on may it I think that's our lieutenant governor of Maryland did -- that Bobby's oldest bottom."

" Yeah well by the Bobby Kennedy was a big battle Joe McCarthy worked for a that body rfk were huge anti Communist. And this is."

" aren't -- I was thinking about that during the break I mean that this is this is just about 20 years after the Cuban missile crisis and and and dubbed JFK's younger brother is is basically playing footsie with the guys that his his brother were almost went into a nuclear war."

" Yeah and and at another twist to -- Ronald Reagan. After Bobby Kennedy was assassinated went on Joey bishop the entertainer Joey bishop's television -- California it is Reagan was governor of California that's the shooting happened and Reagan went on and he said you know you know who's to blame for this generally international communism. And the Soviets -- precipitated -- war in the Middle East that inspired the shooter rfk last night and the and he blamed Soviet communism or international communism for JFK's death as well so so those three Reagan JFK and rfk had a lot more in common then -- and I think really any of attendees today."

" The -- I mean Ronald Reagan got along a little better with with tip o'neill that he did with. With Ted Kennedy -- yeah."

" Yet that they got along very well very good friends and they they about getting together into each other's company."

" Yet they then there's there's a lot of -- course -- at some of the some of the books of course audits of Reagan though the nice things he said about a minister in his letters that he did talk while committees in his -- other people as well"

" and I don't know of any thing you know tip o'neil doing anything."

" Like -- was there any other was there any other senator who was as part of left and it tried to hamstring Ronald Reagan and the and -- them but facing the United States of America in winning the Cold War was or anyone who any senator who came close to Ted."

" it's possible I just don't now all by all I have is this one dark."

" Because I'm thinking you know I'm just trying to think I mean more a lot of these guys were knocked off you know and in the 19 in the late 70s early 80s frank church was gone by this point. Fulbright was gone it was just like Ted Ted Kennedy the don't lead the well I won't -- Hawaiian and went -- but he was so it was a sort of a one man band at that time."

" Well what's interesting about about that this partly answers the question. They KGB memo says they Kennedy when he offers to go to Moscow to meet with him drop offered to bring along mark Hatfield."

" lower Republican yeah Republicans beard so to speak yeah."

" Nuclear freezers this. The best at and that's really stepped up off. Because -- drop -- said Ronald Reagan wants to put all these pershing two missiles and in Western Europe where they've never had pursing twos before this guy's a nuclear war Margaret meanwhile the Soviets already have fire but hundred of their own in Warsaw pact countries."

" Right so -- yes that's right they've got a base they've got they're trying to have a based on the other on the the American continent within Nicaragua -- there invading -- Muslim nation Afghanistan but that was okay that was okay. Paul -- thanks for being with us the crews in the title of his book the crusader Ronald Reagan in the fall of communism mom how we car"