Economic Policy of Obama

" And everybody this is Don Nelson welcome to the program we're here Saturday afternoon -- computer for. Invite your participation. A phone number 6172666868. -- course the preferred mode of communication. Does this after all is they talk show. And this is not a best dumb -- rebroadcast this is lives -- you can join in the conversation. If you wanna communicate by email it's a Nelson had wrko.com. And for those who know people might want illusion or outside the signal area WRKO you can do it streaming. On computer anywhere I guess in the world. And -- parts of the country in other parts of the continent. Can you please go to wrko.com. And follow the instructions to listen life. Well we got a number of things to look at program begin this afternoon. With focusing on the question in the economics in the economy. All this business of enormous amounts of debt and stimulus bills. To what polishing make change more real -- line is Jim shark he is. -- Bradley fellow in labor policy at The Heritage Foundation. And he is an expert among other things in macroeconomic. Jim good afternoon and thanks for joining us."

" Yeah okay let me begin I wanna start we answer that theory of the people on the other side. Then call us on this program pure guess must be couple weeks you know somebody shone like a professional economist. Surely -- well versed and articulate. And he talked about the basic theory of keynesian economics which is that if you. Have a recession. The way to get out of it is for the government to spend a lot of money to go into deficit. Now a lot of us reject that notion that moved forward going to oppose it it's nice to understand at least. What they're saying and why they're saying it because people who put this forward from -- on down I guess that. Most recent notable advocate is Paul Krug man from the New York Times. These people are not idiots. So it's important to understand what there advocating in order for us to give effective rebuttal. To Jim let's start their what is the basic theory here. The keynesian theory behind let's run up enormous deficits on the government side in order to help the economy out of -- recession."

" But the basics the periodic look there's -- it's complex due to some down to a essential elements. What is the notion that they investment doesn't respond the interest rates are specifics. So no matter how much you individuals not they're going to say it. Doesn't have any economic businesses and investors into there are best thing about that such -- best. And what that is able wanted to back -- that it -- post -- to -- Second is the notion that basically that's. A lot of by the economic decisions are irrational. That if I believe that become they -- we do well -- go out I'll spend all bought. To prepare for the early part of the business Salt Lake in your best in the future club what business all this some UT's. The league games describe that this animal spirits. It on the other hand bit I think that the economy -- going to -- on what they've made it lay off workers about what it is about quarter expanse. And so it could have. These are economy if you're in a boom or bust were nobody's aren't the least expensive nobody Sebastien. Simply because people you think that's you know the way things are there could be nothing real or not the economy whatsoever that just because opulent pessimistic. Notably the notion is that you get stuck in this garment -- Yes they noticeable to -- of our they're not artist -- it workers that are producing as much this means that the workers -- not aren't gonna have very much in itself which means they can't by the area. Very bot check goods and services with its size of this disorder -- have less money coming in because if -- people upon our stuff but it just started this sort of this vicious cycle."

" Yes -- in other words is a big psychological component tonight in a way you know that certainly makes sense because in the final analysis we make decisions personally on on. Or our full CR win MRR predisposition of the moment and the aggregate purchasing power of all our collective choices. Is what motivates the economy. Tell OK to granting that that's the premise of the keynesian theory now the next step is they say they government has to be the big spender here."

" Well that's rockets what you it does is it possible economic theory would be that. What happened just you've got -- a lot of people sit in my plane disappears what is interest rates down a bit of employers decide. The related businesses decide -- right -- may -- it is seven percentage rates not worth the court at the project but there. That you 2% interest rate won't topic about all -- So there. But an occasion theories that happens I just decide based in Vista quite yet the basis of the cycle of spirit remark I don't care about interest rates. Any money the people are sitting like right now dissidents were to -- what lots of its response without -- seven vote McCain keynote and -- just basically dropping out."

" How does this lead to the government should spend you know 800 billion dollars -- it doesn't have."

" Willis is consumers are sitting in incident says no effect on investment than what you're what happens -- you don't have any out in the very. That. Unity government to step into it has been up there it's immersive -- backup they're -- to say more but this isn't going anywhere else in the economy. So we just get the government double the government spends. And out of Vista sucked out if we get response to prevail -- it people who are on the receiving end of the of the government they checked -- more money they go but they."

" the government decides gonna build liberation -- in your neighbor the next little -- a whole bunch worker Julie she's the ribbon cutting and we -- people with. -- the wheel barrows and hammers and shovels and they're going to work and and the Obama administration whatever administration is doing it says Sheikh look at all these people going to work and therefore jobs are being created is that true."

" Well wouldn't be nice were that easy -- short -- it's a -- group all of it felt on a number of levels one is that the incident we're just talk about investment spoke interest rates are. Lot of -- orchestra that on this since then and what you find is that. Businesses -- everything else sick or invest more work restricts. They had you know less of fire straight so if you increase settings it doesn't drop and they -- it's always -- product instead what happens is the money spent on something else. Let's say instead that Eli you. Putting money out of new car I decide not to that receive the money. Well but he might actually it is just that the Wilson economy about a person in the bank wants to to build a new factory what do I build computer plant. So if you don't more than the money just sort of dropped out of the condominiums. And 30000 about to drop -- its its predicted. It's it would happen to somebody -- an apocalyptic. -- the keynesian notion of global liquidity trap was the notion that. He just that people sitting -- consider the money goes nowhere the government starts. If he just doesn't have a others. Remarkable like -- did this study -- to develop as they just you don't find any evidence of."

" Well what about the claim that I shouldn't have put all these workers to work on building a bridge it was gonna be built unless the government spent the money. That these are jobs that have been created."

" Well it. It chapters because I was just happy created you could you take a look at the workers -- ever -- the bridge you can get them. Say -- John -- They're talking here we -- at jobs because of the stimulus bill what you don't see it. Is the jobs that were created because the money spent the very because the government that applicants error. The government has no resources of the child everything it stands takes the private sector. That taxes are performed through printing money which -- which pleasure then so we. -- you don't say is that fact that because the government all of this modern it was a won't the government instead of two. They say up private sector companies that would start -- up and -- artwork urgent that we want to those funds to expand its operations."

" And those of course since those are drawn from the entire economy it's hard to identify and she can see the workers who are they're building the bridge. But we do you don't she spread across the length and breath of the United States and a population of 300 million. -- where the jobs were lost because the money that's now going to the bridge is not available in many other areas that would have creative."

" That's exactly right it's very hard to identify the individual to pops in the aggregate take a look at what happened in this perception wise and -- so hot. What I also thought about to beat the primary factor driving up and employment dispute that job creation has dropped sharply down about 20/20 5% since recession picking up. Progression compliments going up so much is because if we normally -- with -- economy but the workers find new jobs relatively quickly. Now let's not happen because as it drops something cricket. And a large part of that -- is the -- investments that it's currently down. Don't look like percent since we have the recession began he can't edit the -- much at least what individually. But in the aggregate it's one of the reasons we have unemployment -- is as high as it is right else."

" Jim shark is on the line with me he is an economist at The Heritage Foundation and particularly the Bradley fellow in labor policy but one of his areas of expertise is macroeconomic. As opposed to micro economics macro economics is that that branch of economics that deals with. Large. Forces like the government involvement in aggregate gross domestic product and things like that. Micro economics has to do with an individual business in the economics that. The drive there we're talking now little bit about macroeconomic. Theory richest. A little bit off putting that in this stuff is it is understandable and important and in the course of the condition this conversation. Now I remember Paul Krug men who Asia and notable of these noble prize winner economic torch for the New York Times. He made the case that we're trying to make the case that during the depression it's now well known that Roosevelt's policies basically -- the unemployment rate. Didn't come down and even more which it yes five she cheers into it -- unemployment rate was still are out over 40%. And he contended that -- the problem was it Roosevelt just didn't spend enough the deficits one big enough and he's advocating. That there should be even grew bigger deficits than we have now. Does she have the support of a lot of economists and in -- is this something that that make sense to people who have studied the subject."

" The interesting thing is that beat the history of the people here the Great Depression will be the something along those launchers -- then. This measures that were helpful but maybe not what is you are confident he can get to a Portuguese finally have this enormous corporate spending about the public with the extra -- That's sort of side reading history book and that's what you what will find the weekly economic history -- that congress should do it now. He's sort of very different picture that's a lot of economists are looking -- with the government saying. That's what things -- so that the government screwed up the government messed up -- because that they were authentic enough but. They were developing very harmful policies. What just about the Great Depression of the first ones -- leave the Federal Reserve cut of the money supply by a third. Over the course of three years massive deflation -- to compromise with -- If -- it -- is destructive in the subways and -- spot that you have -- desperate college Arabs should -- got international trade. Are you pop Portland that he called it is a liberal economists it became famous as an accomplished which were demonstrated the benefits of free trade. A free trade is something the economist you don't agree that whichever one will say that your great small well."

" Now. So that that approach that's of important for our timing is this talk about putting tariffs on with regard to Chinese goods and Smoot Hawley. They was 1931. That that got past and he led to a trade war which. Richard -- everybody. There's also is an -- in the compassion between the recession depression of the 1930 -- a recession that took place in 1921. Where the government. Now famously did nothing. And the recession only lasted a year and we -- out of it -- and everything was okay."

" So that tries to economists is that take a look back and says you know we should be that the great personal or what sort of they actually were everybody. By the F victories here we should have been like back where we -- it again against. About NAFTA and and partly was beat the policy mistakes that was currently has that caller we have to be -- of the Federal Reserve is going not some money supply. But then when Roosevelt gave him a lot of his policies. But that so that he was up pushing through quite destructive. -- What he tried to do initially was the national Special Report act. Which basically said the company -- conform cartels and actually have to form cartel also you basically lower output to what brought up questions cyclical back. But that tries to produce less well also that -- cost more than a theory was that will require crisis was the good for the businesses fill -- what Monica if they could afford to fire or purse but of course should -- Leo also has the effect that their prices are usually consumer and -- less and save -- But because it's a cartel because you're restricting me up what what is getting produce shuffle. But the solution is very industry or struck out basically sit though this is unconstitutionally you don't have state the power forceful as vicious as -- to cartels. But what he did did -- economists have taken look back at this and instead it effects is basically did its. Other fish -- basically had a policy of any businesses would be allowed to form cartels will be allowed to have the monopoly up profits. And good to duplicate the particular design our produce less charger port as much as to what it before. If there were virtual filibuster that block electric union in the company kickback -- and a portrait of those problems with members of the union. It's you can -- look at the antitrust statistics and basically they weren't fortunate you trust laws against -- entity that's companies. You're the spot that that there were a lot of -- that it won't be cartels. What is incredibly economically destructive. What is that you have it's it's a little cart -- they -- to. Reduce it out of public for the company to drive of the which is their numbers. Or -- the producer cartel. If you're producing process put -- you get fewer jobs and what's appropriate."

" So so it was good it was good if you happen to be a member of the cartel with. Because you you've got higher wages and then business higher profits that for everybody else in the economy."

" That's right what most people on those which is what doctor in the where expression. If you had a job purely about 20/20 5% war in night pleasure mr. terms we get it into the great depression and the start. The problems what are all Americans to not a job. In this one policy a couple of spots account or at least possibly know what loss after pitcher Puget big -- that we saw the expression. Three in the Great Depression was so that was because the government screwed up what."

" And we're talking with Jim sure keys in the coalition The Heritage Foundation. His actual title the Bradley fellow in labor policy. -- though UV or interstate in this show to help you are looking affects all of us who -- you get to assume that the minute. But the phone number 6172666868. The email address is a Nelson at wrko.com. And this is on the notion -- the beginning of the program -- afternoon. And we invite your participation. I'm Jim in terms of the -- okay shall be. The keynesian theory doesn't work just some problem but certainly one thing it does do is it generates enormous deficits now according to the keynesian. What -- these deficits ever get paid off."

" We'll leave the keynesian theories that in these good times what you want to do you want to have the -- the surplus and pay off the deficit. In bad times here as it is right now the government deficits and that stimulates the colony and they the goal is trying to fine -- the economy. So that you don't have to it's sensible boom leads people to make irrational decisions like the tech bubble but you don't have a painful recession other. In -- in practice. The policy makers do an extremely bad job of senseless -- they got the economic outlook apparatus and -- electrical at least it was still even if you accept it's gonna help. Which is a stretch to make that assumption to construct this bill's gonna be expensive that it -- a whole lot of 2000 well. After the -- the downturn. After the yeah it would do recovery so -- its will actually be stimulated may Cumberland -- where which the tension seriously should we do it. Instead -- instead of the -- you know currently -- they -- the downturn."

" Whether you're good problem I had Jim is that. We we run of such enormous deficits and a you know you hear different numbers their own mind boggling I don't know what the total. Liability is of the United States we just bill passed by congress to raise that the debt ceiling to fourteen trillion dollars. I don't know how much we know at the moment that these. That I'm not I'm not uncomfortable with numbers but I have trouble comprehending what a trillion is some maturity and hold any thing. He's an awful lot and I. I don't understand how even if the economy gets better. That we're somehow going to be able to find enough money to pay all this off."

" I would create its enormous amount of debt the trillion seconds is 31000 years. Our -- comparison."

" K shah -- we paid it off for the dollar second it would take 31000. Years to pay off one trillion. And what's our national -- now to."

" I think history is the debt limit to what fourteen Detroit."

" Right that I we haven't hit fourteen yen and they were who were a little below that right in terms of what our actual dead at this. There -- right -- then that's if you don't include write the unfunded liabilities that are coming from Medicare and Social Security."

" Yeah out the problem is not just we have our enemy our our social situations extra without right now the problems we know what's going to get enormously worse place to baby boomers start are they up. Quite another in the pro -- speaker years C near you mid to late fifties -- being with people you'll on the size about your most productive. Well. Instead of paying taxes at the -- compute -- clip and Social Security. The Medicare benefits they've dealt expenditures. -- He quoted riddled with the government and we know this is going to happen we can project that we can -- looked up the road -- that the other deficits we have now I think you haven't seen anything yet."

" Do we blame this all and George Bush likened Barack Obama would like to say until Bush's -- inherited all."

" I'm no positive that's. What are playing it. You have a downturn which I mean if you wanna put that it went -- turns out -- Alan Greenspan out not because of the thousand bubbles -- that he was partly responsible. Athletic with access for low interest rates stop all of the time in the group known -- in the."

" That that's true I thought -- Jim shark is an economist with The Heritage Foundation a phone number 6172666868. You'd like to call in give us call. If you -- in sending an email Jane Nelson the wrko.com. Which go to lunch Ernie from Rhode Island good afternoon learning."

" Body and then Jim. And we. Yeah I've been reading that sparkled and SS liberty interior he has a wonderful five page account of the yes. Causes of the depression that explained everything better than anything I've ever seen in my life he doesn't mention one thing up brackets. In 1932. Hoover's time to revenue whacked up the largest tax increase in peacetime history doubling the income tax rate there was in 1932 there was who."

" Are we had no. One put itself a lot of people who are sort of but it's not as something that a lot of people don't realize is you get the sort of feel the history book a caricature that Hoover was just great free market capitalist reduced access as a capitalist and that led to the downturns that result comes did -- eat -- he believes in the power of government passable this -- programs of the let's say that in fact. It was not stop much preferred market got a guy and he he saw these accomplished tax increases he had he has the quality Arabs. -- luckily dispensing programs for the pop -- programs that that -- picked up on. Or programs that incorporate started that he just expand it also Cooper was that was quite an interventionist it intercept pride that do theater at downturn. It's just that all the things Christian what was making it worse."

" Yeah that way and then -- rebels got. You know initially had who reveals easier at least ten cities and they blamed it on Hoover and and Roosevelt whose. Whose PR was a lot better he wished he was better it to being able to. Two make. Make what he was doing appeared to be successful words Hoover wasn't solid and the story is she what is typical lying in the devil's disciple. When number going to about to surrender it to -- fictionalized account NJ said that sure. What will history say and and we're going turns to his days has history sir will tell lies as usual. And and and sometimes that's the case -- 72666860. Is a phone number Jim shark on the line with me from The Heritage Foundation we go next to die. Good afternoon done."

" I tell our Internet. I apologize that I -- cut -- that I the other the other radio great joke by the way Iberia cute cute cute. I think one of the things that that I noticed it be over and I agreed not caught but it any ticket that. You know I'm not sure it -- everyone who accept a paper I doubt that's probably argue it out get everything out but I -- It edged and nudity or people think but what it edit then edit it -- they do what I thought our economy. Edit it frustrate any debate I've got you know what's happening but what all the money that statistic pictures that actually -- correctly. Trillion seconds -- thirty point here and 31 out but you're not. Technically didn't -- there or did it -- It without it for my question now iPod that I question it. -- it likes those security and Medicare. You know I can't -- it very or somewhat -- I late thirty. But problematic your perspective I don't think it should be something that's not where it that we should -- out. Especially our elderly EV do what I look at this but make it but yeah I believe inept at. I'm real problem with the security in bulk -- Actually people are the key words are a lot but but thought -- hear that it I think just what we use the payroll tax."

" Okay Jim."

" Well Leon. That they actually think with a payroll tax is that it is not really attacks in the waters to sit most of the other tax bolt com all workers the other is if the employer writes the checks but he paid your kept the workers at wages by about 85% of what peaceful -- What the government. And so low orbit what are we obviously have right now coffers as well let's you wave before assure the payroll tax and other corporate empire by making it less expensive to -- and it's actually probably not credible that -- one because along with that -- local workers without you which strict -- it talks. But in terms of is spur of the companies -- not -- say the -- separation -- The -- you shouldn't do it is expecting companies to pick up our but true -- look at what is your company irony worker. They were not a new worker would effectively they're -- or -- what went into the company are -- the cost of power -- what they're very -- well. Got to leave the cost of power to walk her body even that assume that. Yet they keep the although I have the view of the -- suspension. Cut nearly cost to our walk of about 6%. Doesn't make it to get passengers that get an assault up a bit some form to the marginal -- But he won't get all that many companies are prominent new employees because they're getting 86%. You boycott which is for one year. But what -- companies are what they see our we've got a new business prospects. It we have a policy and investment opportunity. You're bringing obvious what foreign workers will allow us to -- philosophy as you project the progress you know 600000 youth culture problem we can do this but so are these workers to take advantage of that opportunity. -- sex -- doesn't do anything to expand the business prospects for the written assistance opportunities. So it's the so whatever small effect of."

" I'm. Rich I would June shark of various foundations think one more before the break through -- next on the program good afternoon to you."

" Very broad jump and maybe my question is. I'm very different jump how many years do you feel you're being put forward Carlos must recognize that fact it's. But comparing their national they're they're definitely took the gross national parliament and also the accompanying terrorist group. Carved in the post season loans and then come."

" That was last week and in the pro she's one."

" Prompting the president to learn this --"

" I -- his income OK thank you Jim."

" Well let alone is an -- the cure are very few of the receiving benefits and get a five. You know like a load out of thousand dollars to somebody about getting saved if people actually -- interest I -- To me -- and got to be a variety cost. Concerts you've got stick look at say that you're here are talking about. But I don't think its policy to compare the national left the the size of the company it's eight it's sort of like a -- would be -- analogy if you got an incumbent 50000 dollars of that 250000 gullible -- I mean that's. Yeah that's pretty substantial thank you got there. If you got an income rose by half million dollars a day at 250000 dollar or urged. -- I mean you know you'll instead of it -- a -- applicant to."

" Georgia -- mean Jim that when you -- and I've heard these comparisons made and is if the percentage of the dead. Does that is just say that debt divided by. The of the gross domestic product if that percentage is low enough. Then it's okay we can carry it on indefinitely that way no rich for ever continue to borrow and borrow and just as long as it doesn't become. Too big -- chunk or two bigger percentage. Then it's nothing that we should worry about."

" So that is exactly right people other. But yet -- yet -- 30% or so they comics that cost could be critical was cost. But he -- basically keep on doing about it definitely. Now take a look at Japan Japan in the big bodies was yet had a recession. And they took the did get hit by a bit past stimulus package up for stimulus package -- it was packaged and not on video actually stimulated their caller. Another got to -- that's almost twice the size of their politics. The interest payments public -- take up the wrong this year they -- Japanese government's top budget feature it is say a prominent black ever --"

" What's percent of large dead verses said the economy."

" Were. Quite out work today at oak hill apples what we're around each reported percent to 35% in the right -- now. The problem is that it's increasing very rapidly -- say that Obama or 42 cents at that result expense in this budget for the next year. And it's -- all the stuff. And so the problem is within a few years so will be rapidly throughout 70% are. As the nationals that."

" We'll get him. Jim unlike you -- Powell -- give which he she are gonna take a break -- you can staying on through the break him on the other side of the break we've talked about the problems and I'd like to get now. They prefer -- the solutions and others the keynesian theory doesn't work show what would you propose as a free market economist so few room there where that's. We'll be back on the other side this is on -- senior in tune with AMC Cheney WRKO."

" And AM 068. W -- video."

" Welcome back. Don Nelson you're gonna do it until 4 o'clock and invite your participation on the line with me is Jim sure. He is the drag a -- but he Bradley fellow in labor policy. And Heritage Foundation and an expert among other things in. Macro economics which is what we're talking about -- before the break that. Well want to get to the to the solutions and we've talked about the keynesian theory. Of deficit spending which is what Obama is following in his long been a -- on the left. But if that doesn't work what does work but before we get to that let me ask one more question about China. We -- them as I understand around 800 billion dollars. And there are varying degrees of upset over that as to whether this is dangerous whether the Chinese control us is that that too large. Which your fraud in terms of this obligation we have to China is this is this something that we should be frightened of in terms of our. Economic and national security."

" But not really onion they're. What's China going to do -- and they don't argue that's. Valued at 38 that ties them to us as much as it it's not just to them. I mean imagine a worst case generic you know China decides they want to -- so vicious sell all law although you response immediately. What what will that do that you brought double price of -- it tremendously. By response to spiritually. Ought to be -- under strict because about. In industry -- world would be like well. What about the Jewish -- barred -- base interest rates to a high 555. Editorial staff well."

" So this is it is just sealed story there when Europe or small borrowers the the bank -- you -- you when you're a big enough bar or you on the bank."

" Yeah -- war last and you've got to its global capital markets. Whether or not China decides firebombs sort India sort whoever does its. This -- nation doesn't jets diplomat Richard much what matters is that total corporate -- that target spot."

" Is there a danger that the US would ever going to default to hear threats -- those who promote. That some rating agencies can lower the credit rating of the United States and that someday we may all just. Not be able to pay the debt showed just short of the collapse is that possible."

" Well it's certainly possible I mean you can take a look at what happened degrees right now what they are very close to a default Robert -- Dignity will settle. It's possible it would be disastrous for us because it means it's. Other people what Mark Russell the future or they didn't -- that -- interest rates. Right now we could for the cheap it is people trust us."

" Okay now to the solutions -- doesn't work. That's been declared dead a few times in keeps rearing its head from time to time that. The Heritage Foundation in your more tours oriented toward a free market approach -- freer market. What would you suggest that we ought to do with regard to. The near term problem there -- session in the broader term the issue of where we stand at the national debt."

" We think congress should be passing a bill called stimulus that is so remember what -- but what companies hire. They hire with a -- got good business opportunities without opportunity to -- on that investment. Or rattled and distracting the that would call for spending. Which actually just additional increases -- that's. Stopped doing that and also spending freeze rescind the the instant stimulus dollars that we're not having such of the network that. Have congress come out and say okay we're not gonna raise taxes. We're talking about ceased its tremendously this is a privilege -- also what the cap and trade bill. -- health care reform bill that would make it operatic healthcare coverage but -- it's business as. How congress say -- and stopped in the -- we're not gonna make the economy worse we law passed that these destructive measures. And then passed measures to encourage businesses to expand out. Very obviously we can do it is so open up a lot of America that's separately off limits to oil and natural gas development. -- like the other compact shelf is very environmentally responsible what ways that they -- think that this oil that that would allow us to it get this -- for. Point 530 dollars a barrel would also in percent to eighty dollars a barrel on the world market tremendous business opportunity right there. A company -- up and up to congress debt levels and what it. And that you create hundreds of thousands of jobs and make energy out less expensive that -- stupid but for the rest of us. That's a very obvious that you -- you've got a lot of our regulations that are quite humbled distances. Get them off the books. He had the Environmental Protection Agency you want to regulate disk Yoshiro. Well -- adequate authority to -- is that it and control -- basically every this is the country. A section for all the sarbanes Oxley act. There is something that's it cost companies about their 35 billion dollars a year parlor guy attempting out of the -- the provides. Posted no benefit the economy to shareholders. Or why do that it would have it didn't cost is small companies to the one and not billion dollars a year."

" We do would you would kill all of sarbanes Oxley which itself was a reaction to them accounting. Mission and consumer polled by some companies are no longer just would you would you want the whole thing out just this section of it."

" a lot of it was that was quite sensible put this one section. That basically says the company's top aren't outside auditor -- percent a year too much audited to verify the financial controls. It adds because you've got first Milosevic we don't do it exactly right do you sort of the way to regulations and that companies are interpret that. If you picture you've got epperson client -- a million and half colors here on -- auditing fees just of the so want to. But there -- little benefit to unprovoked. That's what it could be invested in the new projects or jobs you elsewhere in the economy and getting rid of that reduces -- cost and makes these the notion of the best thing and if you are returning investments -- companies or what the go ahead quote what. A trial lawyers such. Hundreds of billions of dollars out of -- companies -- economy -- each here. I mean you can think about so it'll be pesticides litigation there were some -- companies they're legitimate. -- but there -- companies that -- basically puppet law we're doing everything -- they do that basically got. It bankrupted the peace. Multi billion dollar judgments that problem herself. Well great for the trial lawyers put -- workers -- want companies to went bankrupt officer -- trio."

" Can we should point out that you're talking here much beyond that tort reform that is has been proposed for healthcare. In the healthcare domain -- talk about that tort reform more this this this passion for litigation that we. We find ourselves in the United States extension to other domains as well -- be on the health care industry."

" It's not like it does because that companies can be bankrupted by -- he is successful lawsuit. Big picture that you Portugal -- companies to hire the best and the brightest legal counsel -- pay exorbitant salaries to lawyers to protect delta delta waters. What's basically a late stitched just increase in the business cost them all to your -- and it's yeah it's in the -- suburb are there were privately collaborate to defend against the problem."

" Those 100 years ago in Shakespeare in Hamlet first let's kill all the lawyers and he was on the right track."

" But not Cuba but since. So how come immediately like the best and the brightest. It could be starting up new businesses who could be scientists or engineers are reversed instead go to law school because torture shall -- Just how much would benefit the economy instead of we all all the best opportunities being illegal but as a lawyer -- just happened -- become a millionaire. Start a bureau chief patrol were productive businesses and become which outweigh these these settlers are all all. Reform -- system."

" Do you mentioned earlier about not foreign trade free trade is that figuring in also."

" We have. Already negotiated free trade agreement with the Columbia sent a ball and that's the South Korea if we pass those right now. They would they implement by the time they they fully taken effect there would increase our economy about just between that and 1200. Billion Portia here. That's that's what we're just like leaving sitting on the table which we can afford to direct. All economist recognized or almost all congress recognized the the benefit for the economy overall portrayed. There's no reason. I -- that that would create a cup -- on the -- the top -- thanks but it would create thousands of new jobs it's. And obviously if you can we could do that we're not good because politics."

" I've heard Dodgers one last point on that there's of course he argument that you heard. Raised that it's going to cost American jobs if we have free trade because that John manufacturing jobs you'll be over there instead of over here. Unusual on that."

" what -- interest -- thing is that that China has actually also -- drops the reason that the vendor directory structure globally because the big automatic that replaced the without robots computers. That's much more the effect that that's the -- acts but again it's it's sort of the quixotic efforts to other. You can see you can point to the company that built that business because of field or Patrick. -- you comport to what General Motors site if it that you're well placed her they're not -- this welcomes the competition against. -- It's much harder to identify the jobs are created in some cases it's very obvious so. If we -- to get -- the public like kitten that's staged by and large it's it's much harder to identify such a great -- to establish a pretty conclusively that he. Create more jobs -- lose. -- that you. You're increasing your the world -- conflict. But it's the losers are our very people identify at the winners are a widespread."

" Legitimize -- of overstayed my welcome view but I want to express my appreciation for being with a shot I had said when. Over you have finally gone beyond that but I I'm grateful for your indulgence an important subject gets a little bit arcane. Let us to be addressed in his -- more attention because of the tea party movement people are not focusing on tell. Thank you for bringing down to earth and thanks for your expertise special look at the heritage foundation of some of these ideas can implement."

" Thank you Olympics -- Leon."

" Okay in afternoon Jim share of The Heritage Foundation an economist there. Actually the Bradley fellow in labor policy the one in this areas of expertise is. Macroeconomic -- And so he may not we're call line that I to a couple weeks she'll get a caller. Who would which take McCain can porn viewing mentioned that he thought The Heritage Foundation. -- says siding with him didn't sound right to me so I wanted to set the record straight. Our phone number 6172666868. -- lines now going to rest of the way we hope you'll join -- on the other side of paying some bills has no deficits run up here. We take these issues -- I'm on the hill simulation into AMC -- WRKO. You order."

" Welcome back this is not Nelson now we throw the -- my children really can talk about any of the subjects. I have captured German legend nation -- tickle your fancy over the course of the week is one advantage of doing a weekend program. Is that you really get to look back over the weekend. And we can put anything on the table. So -- 1726660. HH -- is the phone number. The email address is a Nelson and wrko.com. -- differences people hanging on through the break that story lines we go next to jolly good afternoon Janet."

" Hi Abby. I comet -- what that guy set -- our job. Leaving this country. And gave that a vehicle Toyota assembling here as as well a couple of I'm getting job. The recent Toyota has -- we have here is because attacks to import that Toyota got so high they decided to tremble. I can't hear the post heart they're not made it I don't think that the implant all of -- getting new job. I wish it -- employ any -- a ball -- jobs that are created here. Just like the only job we have left are the ones that have not yet gone like India."

" I'll tell you general give you in its its lowest concrete regional but it's a theoretical one that I think you'll understand that. Let's talk about pull something on the issue letters okay. Let's say we can make a sweater here for twenty dollars. And weakened they can make one in China and shipped it over and over here absorbing. The cost of the shipping and let's say it sells here for ten dollars okay the classic case of the sweater manufacturing facilities gonna close here and it's gonna go to China the -- can do that. Because you know I am a whole bunch of other consumers are faced with the fallen question. We have some money via limited resources. Let's say we have fifty knowledge that we're gonna spend on on clothing. We're choice weakened by the American sweater. For twenty dollars in which case we now have a sweater and thirty dollars left. Or weakened by the Chinese sweater for ten dollars in which case we have a sweater and forty dollars left. Now most of us would make the choice of the Chinese sweater because we have additional money left in our pocket but what do we do with that additional money. In the him occasionally by the American sweater we have thirty dollars to spend on other things --"

" I'm Chinese imports. We cannot compete with Chinese labor no way we're gonna -- one. China."

" Except that the old that there would do we don't buying only things that are made in China. The point is that manufacturing and you mentions only interest in which I didn't know and that is that China the Chinese are losing. Jobs to. Losing manufacturing jobs to technology. It's not a matter now of finding another place where you can have workers. Toiling away in in some yards somewhere. There are robots and there's technology. That can supplant that but the point is that we purchase a lot of things. And a lot of those things are not made in China. Would not everything is a manufacturing decision when you buy YouTube you can buy server -- you buy on their. Goods and product they're not gonna be made in China and by the way when it comes to technology. The United States in terms of advancing computer technologies in the forefront. Joe would -- unemployment. Before this recession was actually relatively low to hear you tell it. All our employment would be around 80%. Where you are because we all everything we go to China keep in mind that. China will accept our money only in so far as the dollar has value and the dollar has value only if it's backed up. Buy goods and services and products that represent the United States we have a fifty what is it fifteen trillion dollar economy. It's the largest in the world by fall. Chinese either second or third depending on you know we're Japan isn't at this point. -- It really does benefit everybody knew would make that decision wouldn't you if you -- a choice between the ten dollar sweater and a twenty dollar -- wouldn't you -- the ten dollar sweater."

" But not that simple I'm finding it impossible I was just looking for. Food strainer it was I had to go to like ten stores in order not to get something made in China -- I want. And I find that like Princeton toaster -- well they're the."

" Giant -- why's it better get it -- why is it better if you bought and tell you one instead of the Chinese when you still didn't buy an American war."

" I couldn't find an American why should -- of the shiny stuff is getting really bad."

" They'll -- a -- no CC if it gets really -- you won't buy it. Then the only."

" But you're left with nothing."

" Well -- and you know what you're left really is that somebody's gonna take a look at the stringer -- falls apart in the sink and his wife march 11. Consent bug -- OW we've got to part company want to make some strangers. So if the product I of course the implicit assumption what I saw demise of the sweaters were identical but if the American sweaters nice in the Chinese sweaters moth eaten. And you know you're not gonna buy that one even if it's cheaper. The point is Janet -- UN -- and a bunch of others make these economic choices all the time and and butter which perfectly legitimate. For you to say there's more than economics here. I want to buy American because I like my."

" Looking looking down the road extrapolating make China's got to get the technology there but basically actually labor. Internet and they're gonna be better eventually competing at technology as well and India as well. We want to protect if you gonna go global BUS consumer in the US worker it's gonna. So the third and -- how you cut it."

" I don't see it away Jen but I appreciate your calling thanks thanks for the call will be back on the other side this is Don Nelson AMC TV WRKO."

" For national radio hall of Famer Howie Carr the true -- through its --"