Alimony

" I didn't wait and she is finally here please log. Palin."

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" The greatest speakers of all time -- storm. Damn good morning it is Tuesday morning beautiful day here in -- so once again that's sunshine. Beautiful day is right it always makes you happened yesterday was George just -- going to be another day and."

" Lots to talk about we have a case that came down on the supreme judicial court a couple of weeks back PS cut my attention that Adrian walker wrote a column. I just translate I was pierce versus pierce history were those who don't speak. Boston intercity bus putting Mayweather dissect the you made it to -- I'm ES. First is FiOS purist view versus number I just I'm not sure how I guess I. Well in any that it involves alimony which is a great great topic at all times unfortunately much should the because here in Massachusetts apparently the rules of fairly simple and it's up. Alimony now alimony forever once and inseparable until ten votes while solely other party -- aren't the recipients well I guess Sony which is out a way get an education -- from attorney Tim Taylor the end Steve hit that. Who is been involved in some alimony reform efforts for a number review is and I think. We're fit to say that. Both attorney Taylor and Steve for a frustrated by the the situation here in Massachusetts. What do we throw to. When we throw to Steve first and foremost you were quoted I think in the Adrian walker column. Of last week in the Boston -- your reaction to this case PS versus PS properly pronounced."

" And and the notion that alimony is this is something that's there forever and ever no matter what changes or circumstances -- Well yeah the problem and message whose is that oil -- known for life. And this was another reason why we need album form. Because this change in -- said that rule appears. Who have -- retired judge does not have the right to retire. He is continue to work to keep his ex wife. Lose to the stylish who's accustomed to be -- divorce. It doesn't matter that she has the ability to -- And doesn't matter she has -- million dollars in assets. Just matters that he has continue to to pay. And I think this is an awful decision to me say this I mean it -- on the positive side the human that does the judges have to use. The retirement as. Piece of the pie for deciding alimony but. The Massachusetts is -- seeking any requirement for the receiver. To have to take care of himself from supporter of the requirement is only on the Payer. To take care of this but as I."

" Reasonable for marriage has been designed around the idea that the guy's gonna make the money. And the woman's gonna be home taking care of the house and raising the kids so. You've essentially cut off a one on a permanent basis or for from maximizing her ability to make money she might still be able to go out. -- to work after twenty years of -- kids but she certainly won't be the the breadwinner that she would enjoy having a judge you're marketability that that somebody in my day."

" Let's talk about that when both people -- people get divorced they split the assets they split the retirement they split the that they you'd have to Social Security. And -- soon be going with several ways the promise she uses them -- divorce is a lie in Massachusetts should never fully -- to your spouse. Because they -- come back it's just. Now goes well that's an issue -- point divorces actually severing of the personal relationship but the business contract goes on the destroy your sense that plays a contract goes on now. Even when people have agreed to never ever ever ask for alimony. 26 years later. If they're going through their assets through poor planning. They find themselves there bid situation they will back they can still reach back this is having who fell -- is okay. They respect who's an article -- or internal through scratch -- 27 years. She's hidden good part of his retirement and had a file for bankruptcy for."

" Go to Tim Tim Taylor is with us an attorney specializes in divorce in domestic rebellion doesn't specialize in divorce ha ha ha he doesn't smell -- I assumed because you're in the pay cut company of -- Steve hadn't have Ron from. I'm mistaken assumption on my iPod yes -- DDR yeah yup perspective and experience on this issue of personal to respond to what taught certain earlier. According -- Department of Labor. As of I think two years ago. 40%. Of married women earn more than their husbands. Okay suddenly here it goes up the old fashioned paradigm about the birth but nevertheless a -- woman does stay home -- and doesn't work I don't know if that's the critical anymore but this she's giving up her long term earning power. -- not giving it up it's it's it's on hold. -- about giving up a chunk if you give up twenty years your career you've avenue permanently reduce your ability to secure yourself not necessarily okay. Well let's hear the argument -- what you first -- what is more on this in a master's what does it say about alimony."

" It put the law in Massachusetts. Is pro -- it's essentially collection of subjects. That are subjects of litigation now to -- failed to give both judges and the divorce bar and the citizens guidance. There are guidelines for child support -- guidelines for division of marital assets there are no guidelines for alimony. There are just subjects to -- their discussions in the law but not statements about what should happen. -- current statute provides for consideration of such subjects as link to the marriage. The extent to which one. Soon to be exposed contributed to the education of the other. But there's there's no real structure. So it's it's up to the it's up to that judges and Pitt and precedent. The pattern that of -- rulings intimate -- overtime to define what the rules are. What is built up over the years because the statute -- so big. Is a series of decisions which some of which are really sort of foolish. That become in effect guidelines in the what we're proposing is is a statute but -- model on California and other states. That will provide the structure and the guidance to the judicial branch."

" Talking and then there's Rudy PS is to -- mistake you know Rudy -- PS -- is PS Rudy PS was as you said Steve hit not. He's retired Superior Court Judge she was a major -- he was a partner in a major downtown Boston law from very well respected. Jurist and and attorney. And somehow or other he made he made a mistake he he had an assumption that after ten years of divorce. He and his decision to -- tie a reached a certain age wanted to slow down from that he would be able to do some things. With three got this alimony was paying his wife clearly reduction in the payment that had been being made. And what you're suggesting Tim and Steve is that somehow -- they even learned who respected accomplished. Got in this case -- But people were involved in a marriage. I get caught in a kind of a cycle. That can never be broken seems to matter if you look appears case for one -- understand."

" part of the decision was later fact that his wife has her life there is 125000. Dollars a year. And pays most of his. Of his bills. Now. He's is this. Alimony is around 45000 miles a year. He is point five about 25 my numbers could be off disorders that cause I only 42000 is to use police 5000. The -- retirement account. And the fact is paying most it was my alimony bylaw. How do you live with it does use -- so his wife's income to support him so he has become by this decision when guests share with us is he's now become dependent on totally promised financially dependent and his second wife that's right. Without her -- He'd be almost destitute according to this. Decision -- exactly so now his second wife's income was doing it they say that they don't bother with don't -- a second wanted to come. But his case where does say because his second wife is of this helping to support him because most lose this income is going to -- alimony. This then he's got no burden therefore in -- with -- fact of the matter is why -- is his second wife had to be supporting him."

" Yeah it sounds like you what you guys are pointing out those of prom that I've seen across divorce court we type rulings and that is that there doesn't seem to be. -- more interest on the part of the court to actually find equity in any given situation. And ID. But I see people getting crushed I hear these stories in a regular basis of being core of people being crushed by court decisions when. That's the opposite of what the courts supposed to be doing its most refining a nice balance where really you -- happily ever after."

" Well according to case law the decisions is urgent mismanaged. Have to be to keep the receiving spouse. In the manner that they lived before the divorce. But there's nothing there that says the paying spouse. So the -- he can be antigen as long as he's keeping her in the lifestyle she's accustomed to re the only time he -- relief is when he is an engine. Whenever he gets or wherever he can prove was also possible to -- That he is on the -- Goran will funerals than they had -- really done that make some modifications well so tell us what the proposed reform would do again Adrian -- column that wrote about this said that Massachusetts is one of a handful of states that has this kind of alimony now and forever standard. What is it that you folks -- and that would be responsible I mean obviously our audience would -- have has gone through this a million different times devoid."

" She's just you know and by the way let's get some -- people some stories to dial in and -- take some calls on -- 617266. Exceeds sixty. -- go -- and answer that question that the bill before though joint committee in the judiciary. How 1785. First and foremost establishes -- limit to the duration of alimony. Which in most cases would be half a link to the marriage or twelve years whichever is less. Okay now seems like gone too far in the other direction. Which -- you what you assess somebody's been married 25 years let's assume it's a woman who's stayed home -- and now you want a dozen years after they split up. Basically for her to be on our own financially if she's never the deal was she doesn't go out and earn money well if -- if if they were married for 25 years she will be granted as part of the divorce have to marital assets. Which presumably would include. Income earning assets as -- pension benefits. So both parties leave the divorce after a barrage of more than fourteen -- endowed with the equal portions or whatever they had built up through -- years."

" At this a question about that. How long does it take to become such a successful lawyer. How -- school. 33 years of schooling and then how is a practice before we continue so successful. When five you -- three years shortages so if you can become as the attorney. Who say she is in practice. Why his -- be successful employment."

" There's a you're suggesting that the notion that somebody show have a permanent pass on making a living just because they have a marriage that. -- in the deal between the partners was that. That the that the woman would not be working that that can be thrown out the window eventually. Especially after she's left America half the assets. It's what she says she has the ability that are have been -- to go back to -- them a bill we talk about when you put -- somebody sent through the goal is a time when I tie -- tie the surgeon. And distillery twelve years off half the marriage whichever is less which who does one of the goals right legislation courage the recipient to be. Self supporting as soon as recently partial and let's find out what people think is Vera this we've got the two gentleman on the air with a Stephen Hitler who is the protagonists here the activist who has said. There's something unfair with the alimony system that a guy can be crippled for life financially or woman are woman -- on the outside or just make an assumption for the the sake of these and -- Jim Taylor's here as well as in tourney. Who's doing this pro Bono not his specialty but now you're real -- lawyers -- present. Is it do you really trying to get to watch change in order to find more equity in the is assault probate court is a recall us just okay -- the profit let's say some call 6172666860. Devin -- and your NW RQ good morning good morning Deb."

" Good morning I'm so excited to be on I -- guys going over the told an upbeat day."

" Well that's ever that only takes thirty seconds yeah you."

" No no no we haven't pulled it could pick out."

" Are you I'm much traffic OK good I'm glad we have -- for a long time don't get a fast -- so it's not hungry anymore it's -- going not. No topic before on all of Stevie Wall Street and yeah okay -- so what you take this alimony controversy well."

" I am the second wife of an album won't pay up. And I wanted to give you a quick overview of my story. I was divorced in the mid nineties I was in my early spot is three and -- I wanna get up front excuse -- That's good we want emotions don't hide -- I myself want to get hot under the koala. Not. I married you gentlemen interest -- congratulations highlight. He had an alimony obligation to his first wife. Only not only able bodied. To question the way my nursing degrees spot woman. He lost his job. We want the court for a modification. With that this time she learned that he was remarried. They instantly. Included my income in the equation. It is mad at that I had prenuptial agreement didn't had a -- that we had -- tax return. I don't all about profit it was 100%. Separate -- Rock solid pre nup."

" And what they do do they reach across year assets."

" Well here's an exact -- my husband has no right to any of my app it's even knowing. What might actually track that is that pre nup did not apply -- its best when."

" did silence is right I finish the story for us has she out. Punted on finishing her nursing degrees so that you can kind of kick back and enjoy the sun rises and sunsets of life."

" Well here's another interesting thing in of course when you go into the court should go into that horrific emotional situation with -- modify it you better hurry up the judges angry. And they hit on not what talk that. They do not what they can't they don't have time to look at every -- want every case -- in and out of the revolving door. It's a rush rush rush. To finish up prior to my marriage to my husband. Between her and earned income and her. Alimony. She headed toward the courts determined. She needed -- total yearly income of 5000 dollars. After. My husband -- the courts determine. That she needed that total in an income of 58000. Dollars. Wouldn't give up to read then he had more of these forces to pay her Alamo."

" All right this is not a good it seems like the whole deep pockets mentality that courts seem to have if there's anybody around or money it doesn't matter if they deserve this or not but they get to pay interest from what did it with us that that that's a 50%. Increase in the baseline determination what you -- from forty to the others were -- a living -- I'm got --"

" We are talking admission cost of living part of how 1785 provides for an automatic increase. In the amount of alimony if the pay -- income has gone up by at least three times that percentage increase. -- we're gonna continue this conversation with your calls coming up Steve hit her -- is the that the guy who wants a lot change on alimony and Tim Taylor's lawyer working on the case your calls it 617. 26668. Succeeds Thomas -- 680 WRKO."

" Welcome back Thomas died here and NB AM 680 studio over here and right now I guess the speed did not. I'm very involved in alimony reform treaty. Taylor."

" Specializes apparently in real estate but is doing involved in this pro Bono. Legislation pending authority's proposed up at PS state house has been hearing held on that at the committee on judiciary and any number of stories about. Alimony that it goes on forever never never written in Massachusetts unlike other states. One of the one aspect of the proposed legislation would put a time limit a time certain on it. No greater than twelve years half the marriage or twelve years whichever is whichever is less. The theory again gives. The -- the spouse who may not have been actively involved in the work place in active pursuit of Korea an opportunity get on his or her feet. And go out and become self sufficient self supporting rather than just becoming totally dependent upon the paints."

" there -- two exceptions Tom wonder is if -- yet custodial parent if it's the mother and she's the one who wants alimony. If there any children of the book of the divorce her former marriage. That are under the age of sixteen the limit doesn't kick in the -- also till they reach -- until -- but the youngest reaches age sixteen. Okay and then the time limit starts secondly if the recipient of alimony is incapable both physically and mentally of any gain full employment."

" Okay -- in that there's a run a -- virtually unemployable. But you know this is this twelve year thing seems to me problematic for twelve your Mac so I have I understand the problem you're trying to fix. But it kind of points to the need to have a lot of judicial discretion because somebody's been married forty years in the 65 years old. The idea that after twelve years they -- have to guards are working at age you know 77 or whatever does that make sense."

" Well let me says that the person who -- marriage to with a 65 is also 65 years old. Does that mean that he should be paying -- he's -- and I've got. Not a repeat of what he has he's got a ton of money why should the majority that all the marital assets that particular of them would -- with a split fifty right after which includes all pension benefits. Secondly. The history of alimony is it used to be a form of both punishment typically of -- ex husband to try to keep people in marriages is that where you're saying marriages and also because a 150 years ago most women couldn't get paying jobs that paid anymore and low wages. The problem now is -- plus alimony was originally intended to be a payment out of earned income. Which means when shoot -- reach retirement age they would announce confidence then you live on pension benefits. Which and a forty year marriage the example that you mentioned. But why should why should any party have to work beyond retirement age and in fact the -- case basically ruled that if if if former judge -- has to continue to work beyond retirement but his wife chose to retire for five years ago sex wife. This bill it's a 1785. Terminates all obligations to pay alimony once the pay or reaches retirement age as defined by the Social Security act which is now 672 months. Our let's get some examples from callers 61726668. Succeed Tommy RN WRKO with attorney Taylor and Steve hit our high."

" Type guys do you really struck a nerve and register real quickly come. Couple points I was married to 22 years I have since been American ninth street -- cold -- And might actually by the way I have a very good relationship with. We get along fine. And actually we we we actually joke about it a little bit and it's it's sad that we joke about it but we do. You know after we go to Porsche whitbeck -- choose should approach to. Degree got her masters in education issues ahead of the special department in an attack at a community in the in the commonwealth. And doing very very well and I am still paying her. Alimony every single week this year refers to it desert just from the commonwealth to -- Again I know this is really not part of the equation but to make matters worse we should go to guy and he's actually a great guy -- gonna get about eight years. And the guys are being used he's retired he has four homes that the tremendous slaves out amstel brand. And it's you know it's it's a little sad."

" So let me ask you this and and into him particularly nasty -- in with your own experience so can -- have you had an opportunity to go into the court to court and pursue a modification it's and the judge. Look at this set of circumstances you Iran not. This cries out for relief does the judge sit if you have does the judge said they are very high and went and Massachusetts goods sold."

" Anyway I haven't and we -- I. Am sorry I'll tell you why I haven't done that because. I've been slowly from a -- following Steve's this mass alimony reform marijuana I just wanna kind of see how this plays out first. Com so I'm I'm."

" So you low latency is is change --"

" And again yeah I understand it I'm I'm. I get my relationships little different because I do have a very good -- well."

" I really get you Tom we know we all do is -- you -- gonna say about this I was. On the verge of a bankruptcy got I'm really pretty business and only those of the economy is here at the pretty busy few minutes here in -- the -- all over the place. Iota -- 150000 dollars -- that because I couldn't afford to pay the -- more. And what went through modification I will my tax returns and Lou with by. My financial's my accountant. From my credit report. And because -- my. Businesses you do the incredible because you have the ability to movement -- and come anyway you want. By citizens or oil look at all of this have a kid do this and more when business is down the tubes I can't do this I need relief. I hitting -- next week's alimony she's one medication -- cooperate with your corporation and go to jail. And their final ruling she suggested that men who would use her income to supplement my come. Does -- the mail Monday go to jail and that's who started me on this quest to change the law. It's it's pretty shocking sudden disorderly bankruptcy at the -- you did have to file I had to and then hit the filing bankruptcy. Who have maybe she -- bankruptcy attorney. Or we were back from application. She says she couldn't rule because now in general accuses so cushion the bankruptcy attorney. And they were had to start all over my whole case a half after about a one of the joys of going to court -- WRKO good morning --"

" They -- okay John. Yeah I just aren't very quick and first thing is that -- efforts on this. I was married it's way too. In my way. Didn't -- all of initiation initiative divorce at 410. There was 41. Time to waste time alimony to a what you're that this is some of the things that means it means I can't be married -- the state of Massachusetts because. My new girlfriend her income would be no. But susceptible to that held to reach -- you really. Might formal -- she won't -- Susan I do not cut right through it this big financial rescue her -- at."

" This is an anti marriage act -- and."

" Really he's -- can -- families and kids don't understand how from the parents. Sure why why why is that my employer my mother living with a boyfriend why won't she married him in the -- best -- doesn't it doesn't -- co habitation. I can't change jobs I would like to be a schoolteacher of course there's no you can voluntarily journalist money. Patriotism Collins course there's no the money for the former spouse takes priority over the --"

" We know how promoted to another level of intimacy. Why it is all so shocked this is July you might have pushed the legislators -- a lot but I would have pushed through Steve knows that."

" 00 yeah and it's. And like surprise caller actually have a good relation relationship yeah actually that's all all we're asking is that the show -- space -- Put some kind of terms of this because someone like myself at the -- After being married seventeen years should not have to pay in support someone pull up to you know."

" Sounds like about this summer debtor's prison where you it's worse than go to prison you have to stand to keep get a lot of stuff I shot and we."

" And we and we and we legally hold our children to be responsible financially. If they're not call it city eighteen. It's really call it they can only get support from legal support an apparent subsidies 23. And then there are we pushing out and say you're on your own your own both ways both large but we -- holding adults accountable."

" The same standards it that is a great call job that is an unbelievable -- I would love -- by the way from women who feels that somehow rather the alimony situation today. Is the right situation this law that we hearing describe these are stories. Has 6172666. It's sixty at the gal should be hesitant about calling and because I'm sure they have a perspective on this you don't that is -- quick younger I would have been. Satisfied at the time I'm on vacation the judges said. For my -- let's listen we know that you really sixties. You can't subtle -- However if you were -- Wal-Mart. Which is a respectable job. You can make 15000. Do this for the lowers our -- for the 15000 dollars a year you -- relief and you didn't get you back. My ex wife has become Herman everything's -- does the Florida. Oh she hears about his you know much that she's she's almost as she hardly ever talked to -- never sees it -- Well look what they've done to this woman who went by telling her that she never has the work again. They've that they've turned into something that she shouldn't be -- feel bad about that. That they would have forced to back to where you feel like she's so welfare recipient whose -- Cohen Merrill welfare recipients for some off court mobility in sunlight because of money so good that he's that's exactly right and that this person its use out of -- working even as a war want creator chuck she meet people. She never relationships. Maybe some are going to be your your mail and let go after."

" The I feel really Jerusalem and said Joliet NW RQ good morning jolt. Hey Joe welcome your -- Todd."

" How are you wonder if you SK CI just got my lifetime alimony eliminated well. Well it so you're you're out in court 80000 dollars to -- 500 dollar -- out to an attorney. And got in order to do what I have actively go bankrupt. I had to lock it higher at the age of 65. And I just felt like there's district that."

" Well why do you do all of us thanks."

" beginning -- my good it was failing -- going to printing business Odeo the ballot because I do all the real estate. -- business our leaders and order just to not the fault bond might. I had my mortgage payment I needed this business to keep going but practically gave it away. -- networks several million dollars. Going negative net worth of several 100000. Because -- alimony obligation while my life those -- general ex wife. But like ten week trip to China and the orient with her new boyfriend."

" While these I would take your life over the the how it's -- if that's -- I'm generally jerks in new York and I thought punishment are more coming up 680 WR here."

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