SJC says newborn removed too fast

" WRK all."

" Four got to bust a move maybe every drive and tell the public the truth and it shows. Just. I have no idea I mean I just. He had great 300 storm door Ferrero and moral montella neighbor. -- When you vote you win. When you vote democratic we all win 6172666. Years six years Barack Hussein Obama. You feel it it's just about being brought Justin from a new -- world headquarters building in the -- store room."

" Good morning and welcome Tom Finneran and guess what Mary Allen turns the -- of not a surprise substitute but the scanned the -- let them more. I was replacement. No more surprised than I was -- when my alarm went off than we LL 38 if I don't hello welcome to the."

" Welcome the world -- hundreds -- you know at at my own polls like king's I. I can't think -- Canada and like everything his son nick about what I have to watch the end of the one already won more or anyone -- got an idea and in so Monica is gonna come back."

" Spans who's gonna come back tell you thought the -- are gonna come back I well and maybe a comeback next season American revenge. I think I call is over officially ended last night hanging out by the way ahead as well I hate it. They should not be playing in 42 degree weather as well baseball it really isn't that they just can't pitch and hitters can hit the way they. He in and of you don't know Bobby."

" Early October Reeve -- well well early all of us can do in forty G two degree weather well weekend sales in Florida last week. Ninety degrees every day you know."

" The upsets the or -- that's just want to -- that it that was totally gratuitous on my part I just to make you feel that thought I just want the Irish are out there Mary thank -- presented Todd does away on vacation for a couple of days he doesn't -- good. To he went down a North Carolina is visiting has some family down there Karina is -- North Carolina and you know well his flying into Raleigh so I'm not sure from -- not exactly sure my brother was stationed down -- from any -- really it's not a lot of time there -- North Carolina's roster pretty good state below the potatoes and nice place to visit south okay this I thought it emphasis on visit -- abruptly back. Not well there we kicked around a little bit the --"

" Stuff and we we mentioned to the audience is an incredible. Decision. I just mention this to a couple of folks down of the cafeteria today -- TI and they said why -- They want and what's the big topic today -- waited to hear about this case supreme judicial court. Says that a newborn was removed from the custody of the birth mother to quickly. His how well the globe reports that. It sharply worded rebuke. The State's High Court yesterday said that a judge. -- the state department of children of families moved too fast to remove a newborn. From western Massachusetts mother who would already lost custody. Of two older children because they would not be improperly careful so there the dynamics of the case a mother who. In in two previous instances had been judged. By a department of a protection for children and families. As well as by a judge to be an unfit mother so they removed two children from that all. Guess what she gets pregnant again obviously."

" Heads because as I was saying the people who are unfit seem to have no problem can cranking out children absolutely and the people that weighed and weighed I have friends who spent. You know millions of dollars trying to."

" Have a baby does not try to do the right as head shaking in the frustrations that it unleashes. We're absolutely gonna take calls on this at 6172666860. -- and I talked a little bit about this the other day. In terms of welfare intergenerational. Dysfunction. All the pathologies of young women getting pregnant they're not prepared to take care one baby. Let alone two or three -- MIA you can't find the father they won't identify the father there -- wouldn't tolerate don't know who the father is -- all these kind of read through ridiculous behavior isn't so terribly self destructive behaviors and sometimes the department of children of fearless has to go win because -- it becomes known. In the neighborhood -- school somehow or other. That this to these children being neglected or abused because -- the mothers just she's in overhead right Mattel announced so what that decision basically says so the -- and so the decision basically says this. That whatever the findings were in the previous cases vote in this case to children removed from the -- the birth mother's custody. Those. Irrelevant you cannot take dead into consideration. You have to have a full hearing on the removal of now the new -- what happened in this particular without considering without consideration considering and it. And it isn't delayed until the newborn is abused before you can remove them. It well yeah I it it it it seems to be at that court is going to be a thing or some evidence of dysfunction abuse neglect. And that evidence of that was already established in a court of law are after hearing. That this mother this person because it could be -- well. Is is unfit deemed unfit based upon two previous instances -- all doesn't count. Some are -- you're supposed to erase that from your memory is supposed to expunged that. That you know what let's just say okay so Tom Finneran is you know whatever the hell I EMI AM and an addict and distracted in never that a home and my kids who wander around he'll fed ill dressed today if it. They remove the kids I can have I can have a full hearing in new music clean slate it's it's as good as a -- similar slate clean -- that's so great yeah it's. And any judge Roush writes quote it may be impossible to you race. A judge's memory of the prior case but each body is entitled to an impartial magistrate and a decision. Based on the evidence presented in her case. -- does -- that's the baby in this -- his removal by the commonwealth from her custodial parent implicates constitutional rights. Of the highest order. I am puzzled by it and I said to Mario and off -- that I wish I had been around to watch the argument give back and forth between the department of protection children's protection. And and the ACLU I think it was the ACLU that brought the case on behalf of the custodian of -- I would like to have heard the arguments if for no other reason in my mind I think of Philly Philly rational. He in in my approach these things said would say that. Evidence of prior year. Misconduct. Or dysfunction. In the raising of -- protection of children. Is compelling evidence for the present. Case. It's not as if this who has the previous cases were decided on some we'll look right that some bureaucrat."

" Any other thing is is that. The court said the woman had two children this is from John elements story today in the -- you have to check this out. The court said the woman had two children who were removed from -- on May 23. Of 2008. Two days after the child was born on December 18 in 2000 -- would just talking about something that's a few months apart so. And an eight ended Diaw did it the DCF so what what's that the department children families and children us children a family emergency custody of the child and prepared to justify its actions a hearing. Required by law to be held no more than 72 hours later. I guess I just don't understand how that could possibly be unreasonable."

" Yeah and they had an and I think they are almost always kisses with regard to constitutional rights involves a balancing. But the balancing in this case if this going to be tilted this balance in this see saw that -- You have to tilt in my opinion to the protection of the child from somebody who's already been found dysfunctional nobody I think what I do with a straight face. Oh gee you know. So whatever she's got a lousy reputation. -- get this she's got that we're gonna go in and take her first newborn without some type of evidence of the dysfunction in the neglect. But once it's been established. Not just wants in this case twice two children already previously removed. I'm already say to myself you know or this is not."

" It ill at least the minimum standard for a for what we do about children. That you know he you know you -- you know you're given children you're given this great gift but then once you you break that that trust of those children being. Putting your care that you have to earn it back --"

" He has set some type a demonstration and that's yeah is it is his fitness is or to whatever the listen to what the court says sometimes the fact that a parent cannot meet the needs of one child. Is actually not relevant. To whether she can meet the needs of a different child with different needs. This this seems to -- to gloss so via the."

" May she just didn't like those other kids yeah which seems fine to me I mean that that shouldn't be problematic that. Maybe show like the new baby batter so she'll take better care. Mean this is at I don't I and then donate monies."

" like storm troopers out by the way -- deemed you to be allows -- character right which take you children that -- ridiculous that's outrageous. But. -- again but my I just scratch my head when I read this one and I understand the courts emphasis on constitutional rights in each case says a dollar if certain audiences its own merits like. But had to tell the judge you're supposed to try to what you have to wipe from your mind what."

" You already know what you already know sort of pet -- an infant. Who is more defenseless than a newborn child that's -- sure if I mean hey you know -- on the contaminant that is alien idea disabled or something obviously. But they've really -- more defenseless than a new war and we're gonna take a risk. I I don't understand -- week and we're gonna wait until something bad happens it seems to me what this is sank. That we need to wait till something bad happens. For them to be justified in doing this it's not like he just took the child they weren't gonna have to go and justified they had 72 hours just to show. Facing just -- this show that they that what they did was for the right reasons I -- left the mother see the child she noticed supervised way all of those types of things. The -- maybe there's some different way to do that that I think that we have to look at this and we have to be concerned about the child's first and foremost."

" Takes a call 6172666868. Tom -- imperial -- taking your calls on this case. Let's go to Jeff hey Jeff good morning."

" Good morning good morning good morning I just say I'm not quite certain that somewhere do we need a light system decision when you get it. Can't -- much they get straight casino cheating wants to know court gets involved a lot of to a casino again. Okay it knows that no judgment by a judge okay they gonna say no doubt they can do that casino why can we do that was some of those abused child and I'll tell you why they have certain. Because these little you know we need just one more people in this system could justify more welfare. Very important -- when he was also cracked. -- just did some sort."

" She probably was but that's my probably is speculation -- you're just curious to stay."

" Wear comfortable and I stereo --"

" God forbid something happened so this child and I can't say god forbid enough -- I mean these poor kids who can't. -- into the state -- our party or you know 11 way down. I know we -- to Milledge continue these judges and ask these judges questioned god forbid some tablets get Kate I'm. You're responsible for this because you did desk no we can't. No we're not allowed to ask judge's questions people were crushed and sweepstakes no we can't estimate questioned therein you don't -- disgusting. Okay she's already proved that you can't -- Okay no more kids and cut off pro welfare cut upbeat assistance she won't want to have another kid."

" you know and the thing is -- as you're saying they've already taken the two kids I mean these kids have been out of for care for seven months so it's not like. She had the children taken away for something that was minor enough that and not that there's any anything it's minor to do what I love that."

" I Mariel an animated you know he alienated just before we want to just inertial from a call in was this. -- are really has to be a demonstration. Of dysfunction and neglect -- not talking about OJ walking has some like that. The child has been abused. Neglected. New PE nutritionally emotional Lee has learned a lot early physically whatever it is to the point literally with the state comes and knocks on the door. And takes two children away we eat the State's thankfully. Don't do that lightly it's not a casual thing it's not like honoring a C a what you oblige it EU goes through about ending. A very elaborate process as a parent has. A India a representative appointed an attorney appointed. This usually eight and a represented a for the interest of the child even the infant and you know the infant on the top like himself or herself. And then of course the state so three attorneys and judge generally don't fight this ought to try to figure out what's best but nobody would quibble quarrel with the idea that. The circumstances are very bad in this home. To the point of so horrific so degraded that the state says we have no choice we're gonna do this on for the for the good of the children. How this has already happened twice she's pregnant the third tab I mean this case I think as I've said -- just a caller said it."

" I'm always saying is that she's a we'd go to justify why overtaken the child I think she's -- justify why she should be allowed to keep the child if she can't justify herself and at that she she gets the other two back at how the hell is gonna put a new born in her hand washing. It's just makes me crazy."

" There's and did this makes tax base currency as well because they know there are people love this with kind of the repetitive pregnancies the repetitive. Disk functions and -- just trashing -- 6172666868. Brian got an extra -- what Mary Ellen and Tom."

" I come I'm Mary -- I got a question I ask a question here. I know in criminal cases you don't you don't admit evidence of prior bad -- Because beat prejudicial value outweigh the evidentiary value of the evidence in the height of the jury. Because the doctor Jerry -- sophisticated enough to separate the but it you'd think here you have a magistrate. And that would be hearing that so. I -- trying to wrap my head around why this wouldn't be admitted he could even pretty painful at what are a wonderful Margaret Marshall is. Try -- you don't build on this guy he doesn't even removing prior bad back. From evidence but I don't understand why when they're when I think at least -- the jury involved PR."

" Yeah I know you make a good pointed music it is a magistrate in -- side as she happens to be the president. That in Massachusetts society for the prevention of cruelty to children -- what she sitio point Brian quote. Parental history is a factor in child abuse and neglect cases certainly it doesn't predict the future but it is obviously. An issue. In the SJC Hussein. You've got to do your best mr. -- mrs. magistrate. To make it not an issue I don't know how human beings do that -- you already know. That person hey over here his screwed up to children that she had that you know she had the responsibility fought. I am going to be as Mary Ellis said while I'm gonna be -- Todd mark around that when you learn you've abused the trust. And the responsibility that every parent has appreciate the call Bryant. 6172666868. That we can get to -- let's get to I'm sorry let's get Osaka scholar at soccer she inexorably with Mary Ellen Tom."

" like my my point is if you're guilty ones is the rest of your life you're gonna be guilty."

" Clinton they took this act as though they took this woman's two children away seven months before they have not given them back to her. I did in he has another baby and they take the child the 72 hours. While they basically prepared to justify. Whether they you know they should keep the child in in state custody or give the child back to the mother you -- you think that's unfair the fact the studio to look at the prior at all."

" However it can't contrition about changer during that time."

" Is senate today she changed so much second they didn't give the other two kids back to her I what I can't."

" I'm I'm sorry -- that's absolutely possible I think -- this raises a good point -- appoint. But within this going to be a full hearing on how much she has changed and I have she's totally -- and I didn't have done."

" As Garrett I don't think she has I mean that I'm sorry there is no way in hell that somebody either abuses neglects or whatever child. And then seven months later ZQ war. I'm not sell. That we're going to -- trust a new born to them I think that there as going to be at least some sort of supervision but the issue really here is whether you can consider it or bring it up at all. And and this is saying that you can't -- that's insane to me."

" a new case clean slate as Mary Ellis says we'll get -- calls in a moment short break here on AM 680 W -- K off. God I'm smart --"

" It was WR JO."

" Welcome back Tom Finneran and Mary Ellen breath says the."

" Future for a while none of them were rivers pretty as you."

" Hash and."

" This new light coming your dad you're a substitute teacher -- Sierra are -- spit balls. Don't think I'll try to get me is glad you're handling Iran error a look at that she's I. It's -- hundreds you know -- members from all sorts of things she's the she's a gallon around town like that gallon around town I guess I'll take I -- This us this story out of the supreme judicial court however is not to -- no it's not and I haven't necking neat crazier than I was I got here I know we have taken calls your calls on at 61."

" 72666868. If you are just joining us here's the deal. The supreme judicial court here in Massachusetts yesterday -- issued a sharply worded decision. That said. That the department of -- children and families as well as acorn out Weston Massachusetts. Made a grievous unconstitutional. Error -- mistake when it removed a newborn from the custody. A woman who already had two children removed only a few months before that. So there was a hearing on that the removal of her two children she was deemed to be an unfit mother. She gives birth the cut the department moved to within about two or three days after the birth to take custody now of this infant. And other courts says knicks' Nate you cannot do that constitutionally. You must have a full hearing. That what might have been relevant to the other cases is not relevant to this case I -- that."

" That's the key here is that they're saying met you cans and bring this other information in it and basically -- any -- earlier but it's you know. When you're dealing with constitutional rights we wanna make sure that it's on an -- way sometimes the fact that a parent can't meet the needs and one child. -- actually not relevant to whether she can meet the needs of a different child with different needs. And that comes from the Alison Goodwin as spokeswoman for the department of children in families she said the SEC ruling does not limit the agency's efforts to protect children. And I don't understand that it would love -- Allison Goodman is is listening I would love to hear her perspective on that because I I'm shocked. That they would have that purse you know perception I understand that this is the court's position. But you and I were both -- its -- Stacy gave an outline of the woman's history that led the department to decide three months before the child was born that it needed to take emergency action to protect the newborns. And now the court saying that all hold the."

" All that's what it is its emergency action it seems to me that the committed the decision might very well lead to what you expressed your greatest fear about. That is the -- these in some. Abuse or neglect a -- a -- let's get an injury yet to you know whether -- site and then we'll show whatever that will look at. But -- that it is correct it is it is head shaking in this just but drives people off the shots 6172666868. Let's go right to the phones Glenn you live next with Tom and Mary -- welcome take --"

" Article are you who want -- support our. -- I'll offer another view on this I don't know what her attitudes were taken away from our fourth jewel got in order issues were up. But I don't know and I've heard many times. Horse stories where. These -- service historic and adjust their all the buried there overzealous. Utica to court system it doesn't matter what circumstance sorry I think it's whatever they say whatever they feel. That's what goes. So."

" If you. Are here to my pick and I Tennessee I'm just saying in people being heavy handed it's -- center -- to kids were taken away from our seven months before this baby was born she doesn't have them back. And and they -- I feel we don't have the specifics of that but I think it they're taking the kids -- keeping them out of her care for seven months and then they make a decision three months before this child is born looking at what's been going on. Funded they're going to take the child as as kind of an emergency action."

" It raises a point tour and it's this appreciate the call on a Clinton. It and whenever we talk about these issues in dead child abuse child neglect usually it's horrific crime that actually Chris and then people go ballistic about it appropriately so. He'll he'll get callers you know say wait a minute topography it was a children's show up like Nazi storm troopers and some rules but some."

" Anonymous writer that I how burial hundreds of wax your kids around -- show you -- have -- I. Asian island and I and a Siemens rendering judgment on US apparent I am a -- a -- plan is saying but. Those things do happen new happy and they bring their kids to the emergency room they -- next thing you know you've got them all over you that is unfortunate and I and I'm not saying that that's right in anyway shape or form to collect air on the side of caution here and again this is a new born. Absolutely defenseless. I mean they -- and this destiny is just. We're gonna wait until there's a problem anybody who's -- they have to go back nose then steps and they have to go back within 72 hours and prove that they have seen Osama just cause -- to do what they are doing and maybe there they're gonna go back and say okay we're not gonna take a child in custody Dorgan and you know do this is gonna be lot of high and this actually -- this it -- situation. I would rather than they do that then then then go the other way and start because we hear too many of these horrific cases. Where where where kids are our tortured and beaten and are just neglected left alone. You know it's it's it's too scary."

" Demirel who set -- of the society for the prevention of cruelty to children does seem to be pretty -- allowed by the implication of this decision saying wait a minute. Parental history is absolutely. Relevant. If you -- if you've always been a good parent a strong likelihood is you're gonna continue to be good parent and if somebody else has been all lousy neglectful abusive parent. The evidence is you know -- that the the the likelihood is that he's gonna continue is that pattern of dysfunction and be right I -- most vulnerable. Creatures on the planet. Newborn children I mean it just so you can't dog -- how do anything anything whatsoever six point 726660. Its sixtieth Maria -- next what Mary -- top welcome."

" Good running commentary aren't very illustrate your your voice again. How much you know I have to say I sort of jumping in late usually don't you know the whole story about what's going on have to get to work we -- backed. I had a quick comets are we Arianna mentioned a little while ago it was gorgeous country and that's been a newborn child I. I would have to -- unborn child just like."

" The other I mean that's that's that's that's that's true there's no question about that Maria but you know in the scheme of things when you think of it you know hit it. Yeah yup yup point Mary Ellen is this. I think. In."

" Oh all right recently agreement -- aren't as well but they jumped out. Are important unable to be a little bit like to -- at a at a."

" My emigrating into an abortion yeah here this is this another -- is exactly other. Sure yeah this is -- in this conversation I just think -- to say that we can't look at the history making this type of the decision Murray and and a you know I appreciate your point but. I think is is insane -- it it really mean is actually insane and I and I appreciate -- saying we're not and we want people like you said to march into people's houses like storm to presented the kids away. But this is someone that seven months before had their two children taken -- and yes. They may jump too quickly on people but I think and then they do a thorough investigation that they have taken these kids out of the house and kept -- out how to this much time -- a problem. And then three months before this baby is boy and they're looking in this case and -- and we need to do something as an on an emergency basis of taking messed. And -- and -- it's a it's a preemptive protective move it seems to be I have made the case and I think it's an -- Maria Medicaid student in and it -- we we -- I didn't mean to say that you may not have been even going down the abortion or maybe years in a while this woman was pregnant. Who the hell knows what she was -- one of three months before they decided to take the baby that's something else that you know you can't really even you can't we can't monitor and the way that we wish treat we could sometimes but. It's I mean it's just get anything with kids makes you so many Israelis and -- an annual -- it's just are not."

" we all know we all remember very very clearly the actions or reactions. There we have what we know what one week with a when a new one is comes into the family man. And the love of the protection in the affection and holding the cradling that baby is so vulnerable so. So once so innocent to two so vulnerable so fragile it's. -- allies to leave the baby and circumstances that questionable. It gets you up to issue while a lot let's go to Steve Stevie out next year on -- with the very. LA and and Tom good morning and welcome."

" Hello Steve. -- I can't yes Steve you Rania welcome good morning."

" What I what I call upon my parents applaud the parent. Well I was growing up then not go aren't there and I'll buy you some of those stories. You know I've heard from Richard that I was grown up what we're just -- what might or might boycott I'm gonna make it. Is that armed past has filed come up all over the Internet segment don't we -- all back. Church then -- don't -- protection all the -- so important I needed that it ain't like it would be the state are you all the current might not be debate but. You know -- is that our goal as you know. Could -- America's -- to protect children."

" that that that is the stated goal that should be one of the highest priorities of the com while I agree with in Iran many circumstances in which. Previous history. Prior bad acts however you can't refer to it are absolutely and should not a happy absolutely relevant and Steve good few parents are being cost Japan's gets greats. Yeah and in and I can only imagine the stories of you know we're. The truth of the general that is so his parents were kind enough gracious enough to open their homes to and say come in here -- warm loving place different from the other place that they know -- appreciate the call 6172666868. -- you I next -- with Mary -- and job."

" AM every element you know -- our hope that you are wary of the dead are believed to look at the Boston Police."

" I I didn't need more yes yes you bet that -- get -- because. -- started. Sincerely that I'd stick on the desktop and now -- Mike I see."

" Nothing but iPod which he had I would -- about how medical study acting -- for a number category to the building our park go forth and I was hit by a window and I looked into the window. They will probably actually have an infant. And I -- and that's why they won't look forward ball struck a demo. At least two people and -- northern Israel -- they were told I think Guatemala because they were able to people who -- America ignoring these and good. And low lying over how to put option if -- and they were just want to babies were crying and he -- in. -- approach currently believe they would -- our -- don't talk about this child abuse I don't let your child abuse you got people buy YouTube upload it -- belly jumble more eager chill baby. Don't don't give -- his -- you're gonna go there to protect children."

" Why weren't able Mike Mike -- given an opportunity to make a couple of statements yeah data like five or six how you disagree with us tonight on the play met with bottles into at least two adults in nobody's kick in who knows that nobody's abusing them they -- may -- wiping their nose every minute. On the minutes. And and maybe one -- two of the babies -- babies cry baby's nose is run and all the rest that stuff yeah that's a far right Mike from abuse and neglect with a state says. Hey look this person is a dreadfully unfit parent."

" He of these children out. We didn't get much like what's your stance on this you say that they should they should give the baby back to the mother I mean you say that this is the height of hypocrisy."

" What I'm sure in this area or just hit typical Arab track it's doubtful all the support help. Some -- acceptable -- almost as does an acceptable but did shake the mentality of Bob has dropped a bit of it but -- Indeed Kate Gibson restore America is absolutely abused in my opinion I'll -- male children or grandchildren baby being you know actually they need to be all over your house but I think trade would borrow."

" Holding my TV should -- those mothers bills none of the not --"

" I think get really old right didn't I had to I was so what we're working person's family."

" Well give -- that -- give -- capital what are going to be very old are usually national BMW."

" Halo and mentally I don't drive the BMW if you sell -- piece of crap I don't -- here today Mike I think you need be singing a different tune. You know Mike I and is did you know eat your your perspective -- be great if everybody can stay home and take perfect care of the children that's not we're talking about you we're talking about a standard. They know as time to said the you know abuse or neglect and you Marty had Obama with two kids taken away for and now it became an introduced that fact."

" We'll get to your calls from home a short break right back to Mary Ellen Todd Antioch call zero and AM 680 WRKO."

" While network TV brings you the story you won't trigger we're talking about one. Wanna hear this news Boston's talks -- and pay him six AB MW car stereo."

" Hey lady -- fitter and here I'm gonna try to do a substitution for Todd find ricochet -- talk about this all the time what does he talk about. SOT -- the amazing all natural wrinkle treatment from chaminade and now his wife Rosalie I can -- in my wife Donna they've been using it for years now -- teak is extraordinary because it does not hide wrinkles. It effectively treats those wrinkles so -- skin is actually younger softer and healthier than ever before right now you can get a full month supply of the legendary. SOT collagen build up the incredible instant Janice I cream and the amazing. Deep firming served a complete treatment set sail called Bob."

" Barack Hussein --"

" It's just about being broadcast from a new balanced world headquarters Bloomberg McFerrin store room. Welcome back in good morning he is Thursday November 5 guests who is in the studio Mary -- burns. Co hosting before and substituting for -- five versus -- for a couple of days of vacation big issues of -- big shoes to fill -- filling them quite nice when handing -- the time this morning the delight to have you back there really is mandating the."

" Looking around wearing a different studios couldn't in this weird studio with the lights off we don't know what the Kelly's doing Mac we -- it's shocking to hear -- really thought. Usually we get a beautiful sunset sunrise but today the weather's sense not so good no federal also roll the clock back everything's a little off I mean that's -- half an hour -- rough because the Yankees want. -- World Series when I I stayed out last night because I I know I and and the that idiot right until the last second. All of and they can still do it you know I'm one up for what time this morning. Three carrying -- this -- Paramount. 1015 minutes."

" We get to -- well but he won't be hitting the the allowed it to the lab want to go and -- three studio Monday but you're gonna be. -- at the seaport hotel. We're broadcasting that's right on Monday listen to this would be broadcasting -- broadcasting live this Monday November ninth for a special show. In honoring veterans day will be broadcast in from the -- put hotels Tamil lounge. You can to win a -- chatting with congressional medal of honor recipients another brave veterans active military heroes. If you wanna join us straight top notch in the -- put does the down and pop. Notch breakfast that I -- dollar where food. And a great discussion with some of our great military leaders this Monday. Be the sixth collar right now that's 6179311680. That's 617. 931 once exceeded the 66 call will win a four pack of tickets to this coming Monday show. At the seaport hotel can't wait to do that by the way quick reminder how caption contest. We have some great entries already. You wanna add to this for a lot of reasons go to wrko.com. Speed and a court brought to the F current forum page and then you can you'll see the caption contests you can end to year old captured. For the a photo that we have this in a few other the winning UN a lot of cool prizes courtesy of WRK."

" You know on Monday to it'll be great to get the perspective of people in ninth day keep bringing them up -- I think his grade is is you know colonel colonel mislead the general now done is a good pair of big shot yeah. General downturn a local guy. He's in charge of the marine. Expeditionary forces unknown at this point just get his perspective on the on the whole idea what's going on that -- in Iraq. And the ramping I understand the ramping up in Afghanistan what they really means it gets there then and this."

" It won't be all veterans all the time we're gonna do it to typical show with the other topics as well right. To be in the presence of these guys and gals that veterans Dana we such -- god and and the marine corps birthday which I begrudgingly will celebrate some anatomy Gallo whenever -- Took over they're all good and -- tease them Mary Ellen and I've been talking with you had taken your calls at 6172666868. On this court decision that came down from the Massachusetts. Supreme judicial court. Yesterday they say a newborn. Was removed. Much too quickly unconstitutionally. Self from the custody and care of the of the mother the birth mother. Notwithstanding that the birth mother had lost I don't wanna call the mother I wanna call and a woman that I had the baby yeah sorry well. She is the mother I know that bother you great deal rarely does slept. She if she if she had uses crutches it's despite frustrate you she is constitutional rights which of course. Has spoken to -- what -- she had lost she'd a had two children taken taken from her previously just a few months before she gave birth to the infant. The department of children and families. Moves in fairly quickly because of the prior history and says wait a minute we're gonna take the infant from this -- mother to be a full hearing within three days. On the propriety about decision but we're gonna act in a protective fashion a preemptive."

" Protect and they decided three months before this woman had his baby Damon gonna do this because it is that it is enough of a concern they took to her kids -- wait seven months before she was -- pregnant with this child. -- Maria brought up a good point earlier about what about what was happening with the unborn child you know without those there. But as we know woman's pregnant they decide three months before she has a baby -- gonna take it in an emergency fashion. Like you say they take in the they've got 72 hours to come back him present. A case for why they think the child should be in state custody and now yesterday. The State's supreme judicial court comes out and says I. You can't you can't do that and you can't even consider the fact that this woman's Carty had two children taken away before. Because quote when you're dealing with constitutional rights you wanna make sure that it's done in a fairway. Sometimes the fact that that parents can't meet the needs of one child is actually not relevant to whether she can meet the needs of -- different trial with different needs. I completely. Completely disagree with this John element at the globe did a great job but the story checked it out today it is so we wanna hear your thoughts about it and just make me not saga."

" Like one tiny correction by the way that quote that UN handout at a red. It does not come from the court decision itself -- comes from attorney. Out analyses showed -- good when there was a spokeswoman for the department of children and families -- right I just coming from attorney Dirk Arthur -- about it all the point is the point is well you know what I'm sorry you're right I'm I'm I'm reading the wrong thing I'm on the I'm on the next page I gonna have some more coffee I apologize hot hot. Penetrated every attorney star was the one who was involved not yet have commenting yet this is a reserve days but just says KG was relevant to a particular child obvious not necessarily relevant -- dispositive another child and you and -- Wait a minute claim and I and I don't go and I would function of the debt covenant children of families is too pro tech children. Right particularly from people who have already been a judge -- hit. Unfit to the point where it's not a case of monitoring a family situation. It's not a case of placement with. A relative who lives city is close proximity it's we're taking these children because what we see is completely unacceptable and completely indefensible that's when I think you and I say. Wait a minute mr. mrs. SJC yet. What do you don't want. How idea how do you reconcile -- how do you ask us society. To turn a blind eye to what we know has already been established in two previous instances just a few months before."

" It's not say it actually is and I apologize Allison Goodman because Tom's right and I at pains me to say that but that that's not that I'm quote -- from both the same -- I was right fit -- out of people."

" I had these arms. My 8617266. Exceed sixty let's go to Chris hey Chris welcome your idea what Mary -- Tom."

" NATO Mario lakers -- this is just a collision course you know has kept going off half -- church -- little upsetting. This you that you that you're basically given the states. Try to this well we think we need to information -- to be a very interest -- story who filed the complaint to really get the first against the -- on the first two children. It was a malicious. Significant other. Not 8 AM privy to some information. Our book person -- that is that exactly same thing happens. So we're going off but have structure not having the full information that'll you know which could -- down the -- to the minority report you know."

" Chris I I agree with you that is always dangerous to offer only a half baked version of events but he is what we do have that we were operating off a globe story his -- yeah."

" Were involved in the -- Should know better."

" Okay but -- and so but I totally brain and over the globe story that says now there's no real no no need to disputed because the court itself references this. Even the globe report that two children. Were taken from this mother only a few months before I don't think."

" They recorded critical thing is that lightly right Chris. Saying that he thinks it's brought by similar to Chris you obviously have your own personal situation you may."

" So I know you gotta cut -- crap well."

" well okay then then what is it that you do get some you know I would like you're saying is not manipulative what you're trying to say is that courts took these two these just these two other children for no good reason seven months before. And so assigned to leave an unborn child. In the care of a woman who has been the scene is unfit to an -- thing that taking the child the way permanently they're taking the child the way to assess the situation."

" They about a weight yacht and YouTube UA Mario in that woman that called an earlier worked well it was correct. That what's more important than they born child and unborn child so to speak. Why didn't they won't run this before the child was given --"

" They decided three months before but it but if you make in the point -- Maria said that before and sort of you know this woman's got issues in and when we don't got to wait and hear what."

" Locker down right to make sure she didn't even appear as herself."

" Well and the other now and that's a that's a tougher situation what do you do about that."

" I know you can see just say this you -- cleared to doing something."

" Royal Chris I want and out of market yet it Chris -- is an interesting issue not so much empty out a challenge -- only teasing you Mary -- But -- I can challenge -- that what what do you think what do you think the department of families and children should do -- a situation this could it could have been in this case. Supposed to womanizing heavy drinker heavy smoker heavy drug abuse she's pregnant we know that none of those three good. -- healthy for the developing baby all three together probably toxic that we had a caller earlier we talked about child mortality -- is being used as the guy but for the -- universal life health care and single parent I'll write that stuff. And so you see. Obvious abuse going on -- not yet born child should that should the state be moving in and say wait a minute you -- that's the young lady those three -- is that night those three whiskey -- was in the morning. He then they cut -- what right do what."

" honestly would and I I think you'd be signing day did but I but on my Austrian law Al Gore and a crescent wrench that's dangerous thinking."

" Appreciate the call Chris 6172666868. Chris is -- fly out let's go to Sarazen I think that's Aaron took my glasses off go on I'd. -- hi how are you."

" Hi there are how well -- that commercial traffic and get out this gentleman just brought up oh why. You know that it's just about whether the -- baby are what the child born yet."

" We the child the child was born what happened is that in this is at 2008 case actually -- what happened is in May 2008. Or two other kids were taken away and then she is pregnant already at the time then on December I'd like this is seven months later she has this baby. And they they they do an emergency custody of the child and they have to prepare to present to the hearing within 72 hours they decided three months before the child was born that they were going to take emergency action. And then what the court is basically saying now is that they they could not they should not have done that and they're not allowed to enter in the fact that these two other children were removed."

" Too bad this court. That's putting so much and it impasse -- it to this topic and this one's family. They couldn't go to plan guaranteed put it's well they've all of full chart report and babies without the constitutional rights."

" I would not why not having an abortion discussion is that we're having having sky -- that. I'm actually Sarah I am I I'm not liberal and out that's very funny because Chris was just saying that I'm a conservative screw while I think basically -- you know I'm a bit and sales. Out that I'm too liberal. But I mean the these type of issues though do touch on all sorts of other big big do would put contradicting themselves because you wanna have. You know you wanna say why they wasting their time -- does and he should be wasting on -- on -- well let's focus on the fact of and -- what you know what what is really done here. And and you know then that the child is born -- this is all happening and so you know we're stating that we've got the problem with the fact that we're gonna wait until something bad happens to this in fenced. This newborn before that we can take any action legally against his mother even though there is a history. It again and not taking the child this is not about them going in and taking the child permanently it's about them going and taking the child an emergency basis and then having to go back and present their case as to why they think that this is the best thing to do at this time."

" I and it's -- it's what I would call a preemptive. Protective. Action that the department has got to exactly and the court is saying you cannot do that -- basic constitutional rights and they used the phrase. Of the highest order. That are implicated in these type of decisions that decision of a state to go in and make a judgment on fitness as a group. Apparently I like the courts emphasis on the constitutional right but this the common sense that kind of boils up within me and said. Wait a minute. Why is it -- to be preemptively protected and then have the hearing before some Bob has done to what will now be does period. Child and his then there's the other side and that goes away from -- maybe it's not going away from common sense but the other side that says. When the society we're raises he had to say you know what. You've gone over three over the young lady you keep in bad company got bad habits bad behavior and unfit mom. It -- that the that this should should should be some type a discussion about not allow -- to have anymore children now that's a real intrusion of the state."

" But it's not a constitutional rights they're saying of the Childs here this is what marshals writing you know and then this is coming from Chief Justice Margaret Marshall."

" You know and Aniston again from the globe article today that John -- decision there's not right out of 430. No no no we simply considering all four judges -- often enough -- calling it makes you may end of this decision and not everybody right up the -- I know we're gonna call us all the time -- the SJC is. Half cocked an X rays right liberals they're not recognize the thoughtful people. To really 6172666868. Let's go to Betsy Betsy thanks for hanging on the annex with Mary --"

" thank you very much -- topic and it is really inspired me a copy my expense and I didn't wanna ask Larry Allen if she is pro choice -- not -- pro life."

" I'm no life I he's pro choice. Right -- well they're all pro life but he's antiabortion I think is is the appropriate -- I am at and that -- Betsy -- I'm purchase but here's what I would say this and I don't wanna get into a separate topic here but."

" I don't like make my point if you don't like I'd still. Let go right and when you're pro choice you're not defending the unborn these but life."

" Okay we're not having a conversation about unborn we're having a conversation about what is happening with the child who is born in whether we should be able to considered the prior. On circumstances of this woman's other children being taken away and I I think you should guide."

" I understand that and if it with like the earlier college said that the the the the people like -- they are talking about don't nobody else. If we had to believe that the that the that they were justified and take children away like I I suppose it probably makes sense to preemptively. Protect that they be. For the time being and then allow the mother you know allow everything to go -- you have to make the best decision -- depending on situation to us that there is no there is no getting around. The fact that abortion is just a polite -- society and it cannot. As Mother Teresa that talk about child abuse. Without. Having that come up because it's the ultimate child abuse now I dislike -- Mary -- if this child you you're defending mr. have been partnered wanted to be protected so desperately which is wonderful. But if this mother had gone to an abortion -- week before you would've been okay with that fourth three months before -- month before so."

" No not a neat idea Betsy Odyssey I don't eat it isn't my memory I exceed it is exactly where you bet he -- not met Stevenson. You can say what you wanna."

" We're having a conversation but I I do get to responded doesn't mean that you just keep get to keep going on non union set a few things that I just wanna respond to something. No I am not so I you know to say you know being atrocious -- mean I'm I'm pro abortion I mean yeah okay that's see it again. It's it's my turn to talk and then you consist something again that's how you have a conversation. What I am saying is that it is someone's legal right at this point to have an abortion I do I want to anyone to have an abortion absolutely. Not but when it wasn't -- women did you know horrible things to themselves which no one wants to have happen neither. I would hope that no one would ever have an abortion again but is it illegal. Choice for people yes that's the last thing I'm gonna salmon --"

" appreciate the call and will continue to take calls on this -- with Mary -- turns Tom Finneran and of course you at 6172666868. Short break right back DR calls on AM 680 WRKO."

" Very different parents first pure white view on Boston's talk vision AMs and taking."

" Oh my lord. It is not surround him Mary Ellen you bring up the best that I."

" I think I really have to say that I think the most interesting stuff on the show happens when I had the answer to god bless all of you that are still incidentally isn't right at the if you can -- Illini Sierra Gerry McNamara so he's a redhead."

" You know very. Cooks he says he wants to go to medical school in OB GY and got. You thought you know glad I would not not just red -- it's just turn red heads of heads I'm flattered and -- say read welcome back top veteran he had trying to maintain a modicum of decent safe so that a -- a modicum of these yes and Mary -- birds as our guests. Co host well taught as a way -- cup that they is on vacation a delight to have her in with taking your calls it 617. 2666868. The story we've been discussing a case out of the supreme judicial court. Which says that the department of children and families moved much too quickly unconstitutionally. So to remove a newborn. From the care of the birth mother. Who had had two children previously removed. Only about six months before the birth of the the infant and the court says you cannot use the previous histories that were established about this -- on fitness as relevant to the decision as to whether you take the newborn. Or not and I would been taking your calls on that people."

" And and how -- it is because how are they supposed to make a decision if they can't look at the other. Graduation is."

" It is it really almost as you -- earlier in the show a kind of a blank. A blank check. Two to the parent. To the mother in this case to engage in any behavior dysfunction or whatever until finally -- some stunning compelling evidence of abuse or neglect. And certainly nobody wants to see that's 6172666868. Taken up calls let's go right to Bob Bob good morning -- on the what Mary Ellen burns. And Tom Finneran -- Bob."

" Well good and there aren't -- get up there at the outrageous that this vision and then trying to get things back so -- track here. I would you know Meredith somebody who worked pretty SS now she virtually pregnant regarding games. You can not believe her only chance disarm militia to have it done by -- need young parents. They go to the core extreme board times by the time the court finally takes child the way they -- 78 years old village good in Foster care. And then we don't have been -- to fifteen and sixteen years old is ridiculous not to consider. --"

" It's gotta be immensely frustrating. When you only get it in directly but you -- having worked in the field having gone through these cases having seen the Horace and still on the -- T measure it inning and then the repetitive nature this Bob I mean. I had I admire and I always used to say this to the social workers and I was up the state house. I could not do that -- he would tear me apart I would be so conflict that emotionally. Conflicted in drew."

" Let's -- kids and Ryan and Jim are you know they you why you -- about his come home and cried do you a million times about horrible things she's seen."

" Our country in -- much Murray letting go through the lot of success stories that when there are not actually a story than my religious trend in their whenever. Yeah I am -- you know -- the program to well anyone who has fortunate."

" 21 for kids are my. Every one of those kids I mean you don't wanna write anybody off in our society but everyone of those kids at the odds -- so dramatically stacked against them because of the dysfunction that they live candidates it's just squalor and despair and destruction Colorado."

" Right -- hang in the morning when nobody has a life together because of committed people like you wife and you right probably in Al. And a day and noticed is that the -- makes about three dollars an hour right when you work probably break down how many hours she works right in which he gets paid."

" His brother I thank heaven forbid but they're particularly her previous occupation -- a DS has worked up heaven forbid something goes wrong -- a family yet it's -- follow our -- newspapers and judges everybody jumps in -- say that's outrageous how can believe that child that dangerous situation a classic. No win thankless task off. Bob appreciate the call and tell your -- we appreciate. Her work important work but certainly not valued work society doesn't value that type of stuff 6172666868. Rod is next Roddy -- ordinary Alan Tom."

" The morning morning. A couple bank says but I think we're here we're have a big -- they -- I don't -- operation that would be above ordinary golfer apparent."

" Got they just don't prepare problem mother father are -- these -- about whether the baby -- the act -- right -- put a big hit one button."

" What woman look Obama carry the baby up outside that's what the different. On the outside of the in fact that the woman is on drugs or drinking or Cuba. They really should be labeled just like any aspect of our current level 1234. What are what -- possibility of repeating. You start."

" Pandemic could actually upbeat they're gonna put somewhere if they have a problem with the baby art fair caught on Clark the if you put somewhere where they have to test. About -- right."

" And run they made this decision three months before she had the babies so you know who knows that was going on an obviously there was enough and in enough concern based on what happened with that to -- of the two children. Seven months before she deliver that they decided -- three months before this child was born that this was the action that they were going to take. And now the court is saying that they didn't have the right to take the action that they talk and I and I couldn't agree. More with the fact Denver. You know -- where were only left then with the situation that we have to wait until she. Either abuses or neglects the child's before we can do something I you know I mean I'm I'm sure that there are stipulations in here to not to not leave it to add to that point -- Because they're so overwhelmed and because it's so hard to keep track of every single one of these cases. I you know it just it just makes you afraid that this is this is the only kind of option that. And that these overworked caseworkers and everyone else are left with because how they check on the --"

" Probation officer."

" But don't like that's why don't they have quite so what do probation and energy."

" And well you know you got -- PR one -- building up the department that in this that in the end sometimes feels the need to justify its budget justify its request of personnel. And -- he made you raised a good good good issue for us in terms of the mother's behavior while she's carrying the child I mean this is a final line end I don't know anybody who would say -- want the state to be asserting itself so. My -- each of -- a pregnant it's no secret. To do video Philly sound. They want to once they know that pregnant they do not take it did and it would take a -- of red why they don't they just don't drink. But there are some mothers who have an occasional drink and can you class white helps him relax whatever it might be. Well we is the lineup that stuff so my daughters have made a decision I'm not gonna do anything that might even minimally. Impair the development of my child. Others do something then there are others who abusive and it just swell the whiskey like it's like this body ground in the swollen that every night well. We just the states stepped in and what what do you really are."

" Do it Korea that are you know that's where they get caught want to freak on such quite yet to be actually label."

" But you know the time the -- around never a big drinker but I'm sure she got out of ideas here and she happened -- a good to have you did not drag your mother to drink. Well got to actually death. That's a that's a that's a different story for a different competition on the times -- well. And I don't -- a mother yet follow that's right 672666868. Let's go to can help any of candy are getting out of pocket yes. There -- wary -- on our good morning and thanks inning and I can."

" Good -- a couple things -- well I think that's pretty good active very irresponsible. Because just put in another Texas I would vote -- a car alone and I have make a lot of money I think I'm a look at my past history and despite -- we gonna give you know. Of course they are alarmed when it comes the life of a child what did you say we have to look at the past history making no I don't. Absolutely not at all."

" Yeah and it really is it is completely illogical can and I love your analogy and also and I and I forget I think ran -- it was Barbara who said this earlier but. Likening -- say you know when you have a drunk driving case if somebody is arrested for drunk driving they look at your history. In order to figure out how they're going to treat you so much more saying if you're looking at day you know I child to see if they're safe and you know that there's a history within the same system. Isn't it fair then to to to try to do any -- we're not talking about the fact that they just took this kid away and they were were never given the child back. They're saying they took her and that they would were within 72 hours then required to go back. And presents to this judge why hey -- thought it was necessary and why they thought it was in the best interests of the child at that time."

" I'd love to hear from attorneys on this in particular because the court is it's a unanimous decision in your observation your comment could not just shows Mario about a couple calls mentioned the driving under situation. My understanding of the driving under statute is still prior instances. Comedian on sentencing -- don't come in on the determination of guilt. So let's say I have to who -- driving under us and now I'm arrested in uncharged and I'm going to trial on a that most recent incidents. No evidence whatsoever comes in of what I did a couple of years ago in those other circumstances. It's only upon sentencing if the judge or jury finds -- guilty of driving under. Then at sentencing they say by the way Vista Finneran has to others and then -- then then the full weight of the -- comes on me. He in this case it you know the court again unanimous opinion says wait a minute and they seem to be suggesting that. We don't want the state acting in. In an impulsive manner. And yet you and I it was pretty common sense sensible people with saint. -- mister mister supreme judicial court up there. You sure this is the duo this is the past she wanna force a style when we have to wait until he's Julie has actually period under a -- actually occurred. --"

" This isn't a trial that that's what we're saying here is this isn't -- trial this is it this is a hearing yeah but just didn't remember miles that's easiest I've -- to buy an and that's -- love to hear from a dance on this at six point 72666868. My understanding is the department's attorneys will be in the -- you before removal of the child. The child to believe and not the infant we'll have somebody appointed to represent his or her interest in of course the mother will have somebody with a little visibly lawyers go back -- this is close to a trial -- yeah."

" not using the hearing that's upcoming this is about whether they had to take. That the right to take a child in the first place before the hearing takes place that's what this Israeli -- yes it is and and that's what I'm saying there there's not something like that at that point they're just looking at this and thinking that. This is something that the you know that this case rises to a level and and okay if you want to make. There's the determination of what you know what constitutes that level in looking at the prior situation. That's fine. Maybe maybe you need to make it a stricter rules on that but just to say that you can't look at that just just just frightens -- let's go to Kathy Kathy thanks took."

" On a -- and on your on the with Mary -- Tom."

" Bit more than one I think what are the political correctness of that you can't that the playing it children. But let -- people bow out of control. I looked -- stationing everyday and -- boy young women who had children and there were talking about. The woman -- a young woman added her children taken away from -- And they were commenting on how they take their children away from -- parent. And the one that space could take away. Bet they don't they get they were out the enemy attack -- about during giving gone out -- again now. All right only drink that much at parties because. I don't want to end up like the girl they should add her kids take you know what -- I think code at the politico. I -- changed we have to bring back parenting class of the schools. And -- the Kevlar. Current so authority and benefit cool dictating. What current so authority air."

" OK Ken I appreciate the call wanna -- a lot of issues in that that connect Kathy Israelis. You know it it is interest and took it to truly try to comprehend get your mind around what happens when a 1456. Year old girl gets pregnant has a baby. And then begins down this this journey life I mean tough life life is tough enough for teenager without having the responsibility of an infant. And then of course this behavior becomes off time repetitive. So you have and from the previous calls instance. Grossed one want she's got four kids fort Kent and I'm -- didn't even ask about the father fathers is a one guy in this at least there's some solid. Eternal presence probably not given the way we see these -- some of these households. Help construct and it's it's a weird -- 6172666868. Is the number Curtis you're on the air with Mary -- Tom thanks for Colin."

" Aurora pro bigger ever appreciate it. A little extra we -- do don't sort of problem or have due regard to being the politics -- governments. That nobody is saying is you know I'm 36. Military and weren't a litigation department and I do child enforcement's. Hey doesn't that deadbeat dads and moms are people still want custodial parent Stillman and want it. Nothing that I find. You be most amazing is some all these non custodial parents or anywhere from 6200000. Dollars. Okay and that Barack child support up -- verify anything is. It of this state who themselves. A lot all these people to get away with it because the simple fact they can simply say their child's not mine. War I lost my job -- right -- there's -- this happened okay but the play -- being is. When you -- Japanese people. And you Frazier judgment against them that does not matter what the circumstances. The responsibility. Of paying child support is still the responsibility of child support you -- So for court to sit there and say well you know we can't look at Pryor's. Well. That kind of hypocritical because anytime you go work or. For every patted him tranche that's the key word right there you're going to court because. Eric judging your -- and you -- fired its -- or something you already. So that was the case in everybody's going to court say whether -- the only. Earlier stated up brokered -- you're about you know be anywhere have you. -- means and they shouldn't view your writers. And hold them accountable toward unity should only go by your -- and lectured doing present there."

" Right that there arraignment they can look at the prize because they're making a determination on your dangerousness correct. They actually. Arraignment is all about bale -- is the likelihood. I'm on I'm -- returning before the full trial right in which certain offenses potential danger certain offense but they can't look at Jerry priors on my and I don't think so and all only into the into the fact that the effect that you haven't. You haven't showed up that Shia fault -- on previous instances short break will be coming back we see your calls we'll get right to them it is a great topic your calls are welcome here at 6172666868. It's Mario hundreds of Tom -- back -- and Obama."