10/13/09 Marty Smith

" Are you listening veteran -- election over lunatics that is in that open via. That's got -- it here for -- we better than that C would have made a much more elevated and I kind of presentation and so to have spent especially the -- there used vulgarity. Yes -- the war in Afghanistan is. Not on the front burner quite yet because the president doesn't wanna be talking about it while the the health care thing is still lament. But he will be soon making a decision about what to do with the troops in Iraq I mean Afghanistan well it may be they'll be taken from Iraq and."

" General crystals may have very very specific and substantial request of the president the president. I has been focusing on this with his team of advisers trying to figure out the the strategy as well as the appropriate to. Levels of manpower commitment of resources and -- a more. Should -- the more -- Afghan torn Afghanistan as opposed to Pakistan has does that have to be a blend. He's getting some different advice from the vice president so well with that'd be great thing to get some some commentary on this some expert."

" I'm in which we are doing -- art and Smith is a producer for Frontline at PBS and he's been working on a special on the war called Obama's war about Afghanistan. And now Marty Smith joins us now WRQ good morning Marty. Good morning thanks for being with us today what it would tell us about the scope of your investigation of Afghanistan."

" Well back in them in the spring we were hearing in Washington a lot about. There'd -- strategy it was being rolled out -- Afghanistan counterinsurgency. The idea being. Not to. Killed Talabani and al-Qaeda so much has to win the hearts and minds of the people. And you know I I went to the Pentagon I went to the State Department I went to the various think tanks around Washington and and -- all that. And then we decided to go on the ground he would really looked and felt like. And as with some. As with any policy it looked like different on the ground. And it it what you see in the broadcast. Is our embed in southern Helmand. In the first. Third of the program. In which were witnessed soldiers. The Marines. And they're trying to carry out a policy that is the very very difficult there have to be. Not as they're trained to be. Killing killers sure right exactly but to be armed diplomats -- sociologists if you well. So that's what you see in the opening minutes of the program that we take it to. To Kabul the -- options. The problem with the election as well as the problems in Pakistan which here very much a part of problem and Afghan."

" so we have our assumptions Marty about the country that we've gleaned from news coverage through the years that. That it is -- weak central government does its tribal he controlled rather than central government control. And that that government in in that we've devoted so much support to is really not a very good one to begin with. And that really this is a country that it that. Does not fall into the same kind of temp plate that Iraq does. Yet we're hearing talk of an Iraq style surge can you bring it is since you bid on the ground in Afghanistan can you brings some of your knowledge of the country. To that conversation."

" Well you're exactly right this very difficult to take the lessons. There were gleaned from. Iraq and apply them and Afghanistan. Iraq was the central. It was a dictatorship with strong central control Baghdad. Had a a working government you might know like the way it worked but it it it functions. And it controlled. Activities in the provinces the exact opposite is which happened in Afghanistan. Partially. A world society where power. -- Is different valley to valley to valley. And it completely at a mines with the sensor that nobody is ever really paid much. -- too nor did they want to it's just not in the in the tradition of Afghanistan so you're trying to. Take people well for the last eight years we tried to build a strong central government there and it's not taken. So -- it is a very big challenge to try to figure out at a map the whole human terrain of that country and and interact with all these tribal leaders. Criminal gangs warlords drug dealers as well as the --"

" Marty I know it's heresy to. Contradictory to criticized General Petraeus and general my crystal. But the way you just described Afghanistan -- compare it to Iraq. Is this not a case of the old adage generals are always fighting the lost war."

" You know look so that's an interesting way to look at it. If you noticed lately the trade has been somewhat quiet. And meant crystals then taking the lead on this. I think that they came to the conclusion that the strategy that was being pursued in. Afghanistan. Which relied heavily on airstrikes. Because of the lack of sufficient troops on the ground was driving the people further from. The government further from the American. And NATO. And so Iraq aside. They decided to. Begin a counterinsurgency strategy of protecting the people winning hearts and minds it. So I don't know that they even believe that what happened in Iraq. Really can be applied here but that's in the assumption in the media and it's it's it's held. To some degree and I don't think they want to necessarily dispel that. But I'm not sure that you know I had conversations with these guys I don't think they really believe that the lessons of -- really apply here."

" Tell us about the idea -- be a sense of in the enthusiasm that. NATO has -- law the -- mission. Are they getting weak and they withdraw our in what's what's your sense of the NATO team."

" Yeah well I think NATO's been there. Well of course it's very hard to generalize but NATO because it's so many but we got 34 or some countries involved here. Some more and bought some more enthusiastic than others. You know. The UK and and Canada have taken a lot of casualties in and -- hanging in there. European countries. The mainland European countries less so so it's. It's it's buried."

" What the sorry tell us when Europe. Your show's going to be aired."

" Tonight on PBS at 9 o'clock on Frontline."

" Okay Obama's war is the name of the show in your focusing on Afghanistan's specifically --"

" And Pakistan and you can't talk about Afghanistan without talking about Pakistan."

" And it on Pakistan is there any way that you saw I don't know how close you might have been to the border to the people who come over. But our sense again is that there's this free flow of people back and forth. That if we attack they're just gonna run or to Pakistan and they -- it were al-Qaeda is now based rather than Afghanistan. And destabilize Pakistan further others and another bombing in Pakistan I think yesterday. Which him and may be a message about. The United States thinking about. Adding more troops to Afghanistan. What's your sense of that whole interaction."

" Well there's been overcome a lot of talk recently in that within the administration. Here in the states that the pakistanis are finally on board with fighting the dollar -- I take issue with that. I think that what does the pakistanis have done is taken on the Talabani that have been hammering famine threatening. There state. What they haven't done yet is gone after those Talabani that that as you mentioned the run across the border. And attacking US and NATO troops in Afghanistan but have sanctuary in Pakistan and also. Received a lot of logistical and financial support from. Pakistani intelligence. So. Pakistan. Is is it the troubled relationship that -- United States. Hasn't figured out how to crack it. With pressure with money with incentives it nothing seems to have. Really gotten them on the side of going after people like mullah Omar the former. Commander of the Talabani in Afghanistan. Who's holed up in in Pakistan. And is attacking you at the NATO troop."

" Marty Smith from PBS's guests he is the producer in the show that'll air tonight on PBS. Entitled Obama's war the war in Afghanistan. -- recently there was a memo from general Mike crystal to with the president and it's I guess the contents of this memo as well. The requests to us at this for specifically 40000 more troops. Was made to the president. Whose interest were served. And -- interest were harmed by the leaking of that memo."

" That's a good question and I don't think we know quite who -- that man. And I note that. I note that among the staff in the crystals headquarters. They are. Feeling like they have a lot to learn about the way Washington works. Now if they. Leaked it. My crystal himself seems to want. And and relish open debate in all of all of that I don't think it helped Obama to have that out there. So my guess is that somehow this came from the staff in improbable."

" Okay -- Marty I appreciate your being -- will be watching tonight Obama's war on PBS. Thank you so much for your time thank you very much for having --"