Howie interviews Tom Ridge

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" war until it gets I think we need more troops have been saying that for over your. And I think that we have to do as quickly as possible because it's been acknowledged by the commanders on the ground. This situation is getting worse not better we have the highest. -- this -- US troops this past year -- time since 2002. And we are seeing major offensive -- taking place. Al-Qaeda and -- crossing the border. And attacking our troops in a brazen fashion they are feeling emboldened and we cannot separate Afghanistan. From Iraq."

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" 4322. That is the toll free number. Of how -- car show if you would like to join us here this afternoon. And or every afternoon give us a call 18774694322. If you like those with the show on the Internet you can always do so go to war. Web site. Which is how we cart dot com how we cart dot com click on the live audio streaming. And also how we cart dot com -- take partnered daily Internet poll question. How we poll is brought to you by well I don't know it's brought to you by committee destructive adept Carbone and it's on its way it's on its way in okay. Allow will first worldwide this since it's on its way I'll I'll do it and -- But once you -- Telus CAD what does today's poll question one of the results thus far will Joe Kennedy run for the -- I don't know but every day that he did others I say it's less likely saw I am gonna say no he will not for the send you any 36% minority say now and I say yes I don't know I have no I you know I have no inside information night to -- like to have capital wanna win there. -- wanna would win the seat then what you know what that would lead to see any that would lead to another special election. M I'll bet Joe Kennedy the fourth the red -- twin would be in that fight and that would really afford another special election. We can't afford it no but we're gonna get one and probably in the late spring. That's a way that's where would work if like apple wanna one or point 12. So there there will be another special election. Anyway 18774694322. We have a lot planned for today ballot most of ballot questions the where interest that there were approved. We'll get to that in the last hour of the show. -- to get the guy from the you'd want to abolished the the sales tax on liquor seem like this would be a perfect day form but. He wants to wait a couple of days anyway right now for the first segment of the show we have with -- former Pennsylvania governor and former. Homeland Security director Tom Ridge he has a new book out. The test of our times America under siege in how we can be safely get. Tom -- thanks for being with us here on the Howie -- show."

" how it's actually invite I would say get your -- about that polling if -- opposed to whether -- not my Steelers or -- some other team might win the AFC. I -- vote turnout."

" Well and in -- on my audience -- and -- by the fact I do have some listeners outside New England that would probably comment about 8515. For the patriots underneath. There's Roethlisberger is he recovered now he's been yes he's had a price -- some problems this."

" If there's a great it's a great great rivalry I don't mean to minimize or we're gonna talk about that we aren't there we are coming in NFL season and that's. And frankly. I've been using notion that that the new Department of Homeland Security. Who is almost tantamount to the NFL's say undo all the franchises that next year he can -- a twelve player on offense and defense. Can you imagine what that better record -- in the head coach were you trying to figure out. -- where do we slot him out of they've said they whose call on the out doubles which a relationship together -- those."

" Lousy teams seem to have about the twelfth play on the field about once a game there are usually your coach gets fired after the season after that have to see that happen on TV about three times. Listen -- but first my first question for you is I'm still confused here. Did you know. In the book or did you not in the book say that you were pressured to was -- to upgrade the security alerts the color coded security alerts."

" The idea decision capitals -- exclamation point is not. What's that this. Well other people have read the book and it frankly I'm not -- casting fingers. The spurs is that anybody -- you know there's still so much controversy out there about whether or not we should have gone into Iraq. I made a I'd -- toward the end of the book after one of our -- made a reference to thinking in my own head. It just all about politics or security. This is the intersection of -- gonna talk a lot about the politics of terrorism in the books but this whole discussion just reminds me of the typical day. I've had for seven years at getting people off the notion of colors. Believe me it was great they're great humour around colors so that people understood. That decision making process about a lot of radio interviews. I've talked about it in the book people haven't paid much attention to how we agree how we raise the threat level. The president can't do it I couldn't do it nobody could be pressure to do it the president's Homeland Security cabinet to lack of better words had to reach a consensus."

" No -- sure it wasn't sure publicist doing them -- this is pretty this is a pretty serious I must say."

" I am -- you and they've -- how they interpret it and now I'm responded do it obviously are two different things. The book says on page one forte let me be clear. There is no way that a single individual to determine. Or pressure read the system and I would everybody says. -- there are people again take a look it's later on the books after we went to."

" Let me make it very clear I just turned the page 114. That's not clear very clear okay go ahead up."

" Well you get created and it says. It's says what I've felt all along but it says what we've been saying since 2002. BO also wrote in the book there's a lot of reference to assist in reducing jokes and I think they're funny about -- paper collars the the whole country and a lot of the media lot of journalists. I don't mind I haven't taken coconut colors. But I've talked to on the on the face even when I was secretary about how how -- decisions are made and nobody paid much attention."

" Well let's let's move on from the other color codes and and the lack of political pressure were talking to Tom Ridge the title of his new book is the test of our times America under siege in how we can be safe again. As you as you know there have been some rather controversial decisions about the may be prosecuted appointing a special prosecutor someone were familiar with the period and also mob mob cases. John berm is gonna -- conduct a an investigation may be indict some of the CIA people. Is it you know the beat the Obama administration is that changing the way a at the beast is the intelligence community does business mean you Uranus what you -- a slightly different position but. Do you think the the country is going to be as. As secure as it was afternoon day for the last eight years with all these changes that are being made."

" That person I would say no no a thousand times now. I dare you say that these individuals were responsible for interrogation. We're told that they were authorized to use these practices should be subjected to a prosecution. Is an outrage and here's where things going on here. At least from the attorney general's point of view the Patriot Act. Despite the controversy had many really important provisions but again people didn't pay attention a lot of those. One of them was breaking the wall down so that law enforcement could talk to the intelligence community so that's done. So if you put a chilling effect on those responsible for gathering human intelligence. It's almost like putting up a psychological very well I can be realistic if I can be terribly aggressive. And and frankly if you're not at a certain point of aggressiveness. -- may reduce your effectiveness. And you'll have any information to share -- law enforcement so. It's almost a backhanded way to --"

" You being from up Pennsylvania perhaps you can comment on this more than the average person who's writing a book I mean. Is there rather ironic that you had these new black Panthers in Philadelphia the -- basically intimidating. Voters didn't last November. And the charges were dismissed by the same Justice Department that now wants to go after CIA interrogators who who may have prevented another terrorist attack."

" Yeah well you've you've you've spewed juxtaposed to and since visits seem highly yes highly contradictory and in their posts I don't know the facts with regard to -- Potential prosecution that there was some. At least publicly much public discussion about what they were doing at polling sites and they decide to dismiss that which are still scratching my head wondering why -- But there's no indecision on my part about going after the former interrogators it's just long."

" 18774694322. We're speaking to Tom Ridge the title of his new book is the test of our times America under siege and how we can be -- you can order from our website. How we cart dot com. Governor ridge up people wanna talk to you so what we're gonna go to the phone lines and take a few calls here could you. Belliard next with Howie Carr and governor Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania go ahead bill."

" There are good afternoon mr. rich it's real -- Good afternoon to you please explain to the American people. If that of the Patriot Act and how the hour after. End soon could be a matter BOR. Is going to look entry individual records. About their purchasers. And their interest payments on the mortgage payment I guess they're there."

" I I don't know what he's I don't I don't know what I referring to do you have governor --"

" Bill -- I don't know if I don't know if he's referring to and national security letters are not. It's unlikely it would answers questions specifically. And it generally I would say listen I'm. I support the Patriot Act was passed. Some of the revisions did not stand up to judicial scrutiny. That's one of the strengths of our system those are those provisions were changed. Director -- BI director Bob Mueller. When that our own inspector general found out that some of the procedures were being followed internally he made those adjustments. Not take a look at the Patriot Act one take it was an important piece of legislation to admit that there may have been some missteps but they were not done for any other there weren't that intentionally and we corrected some sort I really don't always start at about."

" Governor governor ridge -- shall -- you secretary Rick Dyer got and I like the guy I would I would prefer being known as governor --"

" Our warriors to get that -- when I say get the present these that you could be secretary so what took -- four years and other insidious Mr. President."

" Okay well let me ask you something about Mr. President do you think he should be a more out front about this whole us CIA interrogator situation immediately he's -- Dick Cheney had the wall have you left and on this map."

" Well unite. President George Bush today has been my friend 25 years. There's just dial in this sense of character that he has said I don't think he's going to do it it'll never change. He respects the office so obviously both it is dead held that he respects the difficulty -- the complexities associated with the leading America and the world. -- I think he very appropriate sit. And now there's a lot out there he can talk about but it always very cautious. And talking about it publicly and I respect that."

" answer his guys I mean these are guys that you know org -- you're thinking about not prosecute the gonna be. Persecuted."

" Yeah well I mean but I think dad and that's it's it's it's time rather as a state got by the united and again I don't know are they ever have not -- I think. Beyond that it is credit I think he's spoken out. I hope they George -- John with a walk and speak out. Elected President Bush has enormous respect for these men and women military intelligence. And I think she believes it the end of the day. There should be other people out there really speaking in their defense -- he knows what they did I'm like and I think we decide to let it go to deaths."

" Thanks for the call bill rod you're next with Howie Carr and governor Tom Ridge the author of the new book the test of our times go ahead run."

" Governor ridge you know the irony of the name of the Patriot Act is really striking at home. It in my opinion the Obama administration. Is a Marxist revolutionary administration. And certainly Patriot Act is so vague. That's deceptive potentially be used against ordinary Americans must end I I really wish that you folks did not ask. The Patriot Act like --"

" Yeah that it it it passed without one dissenting wrote. So if and again what did you think -- devastated the caller is even though there was only one dissenting vote. Because there were new authorities say given to other law enforcement. They put essentially division. And they waited a couple of years to make sure that the provisions were being properly adhered to and followed. They went back amendments and changes in an immediate changes. There are also some provisions are not so uncertain about a way if -- abuses that you're talking about and others come before. It is the legislative or the judicial branch is in a position as they did was -- regional -- there Brett if you're the original Patriot Act can change some."

" Thanks for the call on John you're John you're next with Howie Carr and governor Tom -- author of the test of our times America under siege and how we can be safe again go ahead John."

" I LEI. Governor all of you wondering well what -- like are in that position as. Are literally true art created warden here after I 9/11 in Washington when you first start the job."

" Well I always say extraordinary experience -- as I mentioned in the book and again so many people -- reading things that I put in the book is big -- it just happened -- trying to explain to people what I did wide -- detentions we dealt with and it's never personal but. We wrote my job description after I say yes. Com I mean I knew the president wants somebody to me when he talked we -- talked about court dated some activity in the White House. Being at the rating given to to do -- he was on his behalf. That obviously lead to further discussions and the decision to create a Department of Homeland Security. Everybody was so learning and so there we went wrong. Joe Lieberman said there we already additions to the -- as the floodwaters kept pouring into this so what it is the Department of Homeland Security. And there was a lot of getting used to within the department and a lot of other departments getting used asked. And those are some of the tensions. But there were personal that's sort of -- people understand they weren't personal. To demonstrate within the president's cabinet was good but the institution challenges were not."

" Well speaking of institutional challenges -- it would it would the whole Department of Homeland Security be more efficient. If the Democrats in congress -- hadn't insisted on unionization."

" Well you know we worked long and hard daily to create. What I consider to be a 21 century. And -- say in the book everybody in the book I care to cartoon driver six years labor slope they are not carriers local six."

" I carried a card for many more years than that but I did -- but I know but but but but yeah."

" Let me tell you we we worked out assistant that I -- balance their needs they have some legitimate needs with the needs of our managers in the -- of the country. And we thought we can work it out. We spent almost a year negotiating. There's a lot of give and take we took some provisions that we thought were very appropriate events -- interest at the end of the day after it's also done. They took his record I think it's still tentative accord I regret that tonight we were got a great system steroids for them but more importantly for America."

" Thanks for the call John bog your next with Howie -- governor Tom Ridge that -- his new book the test of our times America under siege and how we can be safe again it's published by saint Martin's go ahead Bob."

" that ain't no way it's a second time want to thank you mr. Rick there's our question. If Obama administration is so worried about gone after the CIA why didn't they do anything about the southern border I mean what at what point in time. They closed suspected."

" Well I you have I don't know whether -- it gives it the press says it's opposite answer that question. I think gestured for all those questions to the President Obama. I clearly states. That one you should know in the book I talk about the fact that we do not have an immigration policy. Not just for the southern border I mean for the world generally. Two I think it says it's. It's good that we started enforcing the law as President Bush and congress. And it did survive -- more agents Customs and Border Protection we started building some of the barriers to its third late in this you may not agree with this -- it's okay. I think it actually part of a broader real. And -- comprehensive plan. That allows so willing workers to rematch -- willing employers we need all three of those and by the way that we need cooperation of the Mexican government. They'll they need to help us honor and integrity of our border and immigration to --"

" The stories in the he had that tombstone paper I think during the 2004 election that that some Arabs were arrest sneaking across the border and they where they had suits and all that was with thirty thing to do remember those stories. I was very short -- everything to those stories."

" Now I bet that beast it doesn't take -- this -- the note if you can if there's a if there's a infrastructure that can transport hundreds of thousands of illegals across the border the same infrastructure we used to crush -- or -- if if that doesn't take much."

" So you don't think they're sneaking across from the --"

" Never read any evidence there you remember we -- we we catch -- and until recently we were we were over lake fishing down their kitchen released. That we've been picked catching more indicating more and to the best of my knowledge. Among the hundreds of thousands that we cut over the past couple of years and thousands we'd be gained. We haven't picked up anybody that we suspected as the terrorists but the fact remains -- infrastructure still exists and we have to close a door."

" Speaking to Tom Ridge the former governor Pennsylvania the former director of Homeland Security secretary of Homeland Security for the United States under the Bush Administration. Paul your next with Howie Carr and Tom rich go ahead Paul."

" Good afternoon Irene good afternoon governor ridge so -- I think I might yuck watch on this spot. -- furious -- I don't think the Obama administration's after the CIA. -- believe that they're they're still but it wound up there what quarter after President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney or if there's not Iraq. In order to get it down they're gonna try to flip Foster agent or create some additional public regards -- the former interrogation."

" What -- that's what they're hybrid theory too was Tom that what they're trying to do was not go after these individual. Guy -- who -- basically do when their duties and were shared by the Bush Administration lawyers that they work. Operating within the law. That you're looking for evidence that they can then turn over to the world court in strategist hassle. It Dick Cheney and George Bush for the rest of their days. Is do you think there's anything to that."

" Well there are a lot of people believe it I don't share that point of view but I do share the point of view that the mood in the wrong direction and ignore. At the reality is is that of what the president had said President Obama said. Along time ago. And we -- know he differed with a visit with the President Bush and John McCain a lot of issues relating. This war against these terrorists it's time for -- to look ahead. Now he's president if you want to change policies that's his prerogatives. But I want everybody to be reminded. That some day that administration will be succeeded it will be succeeded by Republican president. And Republican attorney general. And let's just fast forward and say this same mindset. What if -- attorney general says then you guys weren't aggressive enough. He didn't interrogate well you use those techniques there weren't effective. Their support terrorists got into this country we think we're gonna look and see if there's any opportunity to prosecute church and they're heading down -- passed. It is wrong for the country not just wrong to be interrogators. These men make decisions in interrogated. Using that there's that lawyers approved. There's -- go if you want to do things differently do it differently. Which my story I dealing with the latest with their -- of these."

" Actual would you ideologues of and attack the terrorist attack. --"

" I'm not gonna I didn't dvi or the reason I wrote the book as I. I think complacency is a luxury we can't afford to book that was the one thing like I said I was not a counterterrorism expert but I sure they held a lot along the way. That was running until that there walked out the door that. America needs to be -- we can -- this crowd we don't have to be breathless about it the departures are still on America they are patient. Strategic actors they've had access to scientists they've experimented with staff. They don't sit there watches -- their clocks like we do. If it took them fifty years a hundred years but we're gonna celebrate the eighth anniversary. Of the 9/11 are being checked so was my coach here at the memorial. Tommy -- It was eight years from the first attack on the World Trade Center -- second attacked. You gotta -- this notion because nothing had happened that we are forever mutant of something happening again that's that's a defective reasoning and."

" do you think that do you think that's what the Obama administration is going that there and to this mindset that it's -- all over and it can't happen again."

" They're not I don't I I try very hard even though I've been criticized trying to get -- their heads and tell you what it in explain to people to you what their conduct is I just think it's. It's wrong headed to. In this recent. This recent. The -- decision by the attorney general is it is just. I think it's unconscionable."

" 1877469432. To take -- more calls for -- governor -- that you go to chuck you're next with Howie Carr and governor ridge go ahead chuck."

" There are -- governor -- quick question for one Israel why did you name -- on the homeland. The department inspector -- works do you listen to -- just -- out that's not he would connotations. And all this and and then -- and then -- in the -- No it does well the what do you look already called the homeland I mean it."

" And I believe that their."

" Now he called the motherland and all the evidence that calls an army all the conservative but I governor I believe Saddam George Bush and his administration assure part of single handedly destroyed the party and their critical long country build -- with the Patriot Act would not doing anything about immigration rating taxes. They were really accomplished. Nothing if anything they -- it back a huge amount of."

" Thought they don't get the picture --"

" wait a personal check and they had to take it stated that my president. Hold it you're gonna persuade you differently. And when it comes to the name of the department dead. That was at least from our stories we wanted to make sure. That we had the right agencies. Who in time can be integrated into a he had not that it's not a new bureaucracy -- Sally has done an 80000 new people most of these people working government before. Who could be aligned so that we can do a better job and our borders. We still have a lot of work to do that debt to a point that you made it was President Bush gave us more money for Customs and Border Protection. Was under President Bush submitted -- to do differently record more aggressively and at the border. And that's a real real challenge for this administration. -- let's face -- challenge for congress Republicans and Democrats have been locked away from that -- for a long time and hopefully somebody will have the courage to say. Enough is enough preserving the status quo. It's not acceptable we're gonna have an immigration policy in this country could do it."

" I also remember George Bush cutting taxes."

" No and I -- I didn't I guess I can go that'll let this thing that contradicted previous -- every once in awhile I mean he's he's strongly convicted in that certain way. And there's not a darn thing I can do. But I will tell you sir that I can say. As did the -- is premature. Analysis of the demise of the Republican Party you suggest is exactly that premature and wrong. Now what we now have as an opportunity. Given this very aggressive domestic agenda that I think more and more people in America. Because I think Americans are center right. Are saying that they they voted for change that was pretty imprecise now that they see the allied to the change they don't like -- not a great opportunity for the Republicans which is. We are the Conservative Party to reassert ourselves. And numbers in 2010 and they get a competitive election 2000."

" One more call one more call for governor original and go -- you're next with Howie -- governor Tom -- the off -- his new book is the test of our times go ahead --"

" I am I way not there's a border governor -- I'm. I'm glad they're there you are German on the phone call up the Diamondbacks. I'm. Gonna -- Oh yeah -- I don't like it -- bomb. Governor let us sit on the upcoming election. First of all I know they can't -- cliche of who we were back and urged. Spend most governor stage sort and the doctor got twelve presidential. Bartlett what so people have read the Republican pleasure page to get them back on board get a straight. Disaster router do it and get the followers back. -- MMS second part of our current governor there's sat -- may have had a democratic legislation -- 24 years -- weren't. Talk me out of good Republican governor would you consider relocating."

" I appreciate about it -- beautiful state that says they go there are I have to. -- that the way to do it the way you -- build the party's candidate Tuesday I think we have a great shot -- both the two races in New Jersey and Virginia which shareware that there's several state legislative races this year or next year. And -- switch of just a modest numbers chase -- columns W start to me about the other day. Turns out from Democrat to Republican. Legislatures. And I think it's all about. Frankly recruiting the right candidates and I would say this about the party. Own. We have to be more tolerant of different points of views in our party. Republican Party under Ronald Reagan Ronald President Reagan said that's. I agree with the 80% of the time you're pretty good Republican. I think we need just understand it's -- American need to understand that there. That dissent is not this unity. And the yeah unity he -- That's never noticed they do a better job there are more diversified opinion it's simply stay within the Democrat party's."

" But I I don't think that Nancy Pelosi is too happy with the that the sender."

" Rob I'm I'm glad they're there but. You know they they did they they did. That they that they want an overwhelming majority because they had an extraordinarily. Gifted speaker there really smart man who used technology the likes of which is there have been used -- by the way they blew the bottom the sides in the top out of public financing. Nobody talks about the three quarters of billion dollars they raised that's one reason they were that -- they were victorious so. I think the Republican Party is well positioned to come back. That we need to recruit candidates and build support and except a little more diversity in the party that we mean that we can move on quickly."

" Governor rich thanks for being with us the title of your new book is the test of our times America under siege in how we can be safe again we appreciate -- out -- thank you thank you are -- by."