Transgender Bill

" Good morning talk fiber here Tommy is off today it is a Thursday that's gonna be warm eighty degrees but not necessarily sunny. We'll take it won't win. We will take our thanks tuning in -- talk now about the trans gender bill there was a hearing this week. At the Massachusetts. State legislature. They wanted to learn more. On borrowed. Exactly how people feel about legislation that would add trans genders to anti discrimination laws. And also to hate crime laws here for the state of Massachusetts. Joining us to help with the conversation is Toni troop from an organization called Jane go. In Jane DO advocates. I think for these types of issues and against sexual violence and and things like that Tony welcome to WR --"

" And point out what happened at the hearing this week. For example of democracy in action where where hundreds of people that came there. He is gone. 220. Bill ranging from. Victims' rights and that the compensation -- the standard nondiscrimination bill -- A real testament to their. It staff and I helped elect of."

" Are you are you saying all these pieces of legislation are part of this proposal."

" No doubt that they that the hearing on Tuesday it was the Judiciary Committee."

" Or is it wasn't just focused on the trans gender rights issue and there are others that -- Did did go there all day long."

" His staff for about four. Four hours but I cup between -- my colleagues and I we prepare for the entire."

" Can you explain to us why you think a trans gender folks should get special protections under the law."

" Well aren't paying out of I'd appreciate it thought you were special it's. We all it's a red -- you know exactly what you're trying to."

" No I don't know what what what is wrong about saying special I know and I idea where you're talking about."

" An argument that you is what we tried to get gender when we tried to get protection for discriminate against discrimination for people who people are. For people --"

" I still don't know what's Vargas is special protection by definition is an a because -- well then why don't we put everybody under and say all people should not be discriminating against period. I want why don't we fight for that instead of did what by definition I think his special protection."

" Well because our -- yesterday. There -- on the boat that they were all protected against any I think I think even that I honestly thought well what I wanna go to that."

" The market even say what -- that is that. All -- pretty well we tried to plant -- airing nationally. You and other like tried that -- argument to try to get a stop the -- on the national level we have area on the state level."

" Thirty years let me ask you of the world on down unit deployment -- a special protection the cut we have anti discrimination."

" All we're saying here is that at -- belt law currently. Does not cover of a right. To protect them against discrimination. People -- on their gender identity or gender expression. We're trying to gravity back to ensure percent of people who have been discriminated against the -- of this season when they have. That they in. They have had to go through that and -- process and in fact and eighteen."

" The Massachusetts commission against discrimination."

" Thank you you know has already established case law and it's been in effect for several years. And so we have what we're trying to do -- codified --"

" Just make it clear and simple because most employers people. You know edit this up -- things around housing. And credit public accommodations. People -- refer to -- law more as you know if the general public more than looking at the decisions out of the -- commission against the Lebanese."

" And so we're trying to get codify what in -- to argue that prop practice but today people are not gonna notice any difference. It could have. In a statement of value in -- well."

" We do not believe that people should be discriminated against based on their gender identity or gender expression and that doesn't value that we think is very important to stay."

" Okay I disagree and here's why I I don't. Have any objection -- everybody being treated equally and not something I would I would support anyone that says all citizens should be treated equally. I have no problem with that what I I have problem with taking -- particular groups of people. And empowering them to get things because of their condition and not."

" it doesn't get them. Something that they didn't deserve otherwise."

" You're sure you're you're at this is like affirmative action or things like that state -- where you're probably had a have a conversation about that accurately. Out -- not anybody."

" They you have to hire them -- to -- have to really creates -- and it against them."

" But that means that while all other things being well."

" Now -- I'll give me an example there was an accident just several weeks ago in the T the driver of the train was a trans gender. And the there was so I don't know if it was true or not hasn't been confirmed as far as I now but one of the people from the -- said. That in Quinn had been hired under some kind of trans gender affirmative action. Program at the T. And that kind of priority I compare -- Quinn the driver of that train to. Captain Sullenberger who was flying the plane went down in the Hudson. And those are the two priorities that I CIS messing with here one is do we want excellence in jobs to be the priority or. Do we want special classes of people running around saying look I have this lot of protects make you have to give me that job because I am blank. And."

" I'm -- gonna be really clear the MBTA. Made a statement. It was a very clear that that that there wouldn't now hiring practice -- actual data to people based on their tender right Kennedy. Do -- to -- an accurate ABC news report the MBTA. Numerous increased about I'm reading right for their statement about the inquiry it was not true and you continue."

" all big and no I don't personally I don't I don't know why you're saying all this stuff about me I haven't talked about it that much second. I'm pointing to a larger issue the war all aware of in our society whether it happened at the T or not in this particular case isn't it telling. Wee wee side. Police are similar situation with the the New Haven case in the white firefighters who were discriminated against -- said. We -- while they Supreme Court ruled that were so you're up against the Supreme Court now. What are we won't we are or were talking about is dividing people. Based on. A superficial circumstances. Rather than saying we are nation working together to for excellence and everybody's happiness and pleasure. And not to protect certain groups of people."

" I would stand with you on that idea I'd be -- Wonderful."

" So propose that kinds of what kind of legislation instead of glorifying trans -- is so they can run around sewing. Because they don't have the bathroom of their choice."

" Well couple's bank okay first of all you know. I can be an idealistic at an excellent and I applaud you for taking you know for for promoting the values that people should not be discriminated against and everything to be hunky dory it was -- the catalogue. But acting is you and I know very well that the and our laws are created to protect people otherwise we wouldn't have any laws at all so you know there's."

" That's not true we have lots of hang on Tony waited to see you and have any laws we have general lies lies you camp murder people. You cannot rob it doesn't say black people aren't allowed to rob but orange people are."

" But but but but but it doesn't do it that they that you can't."

" There are there are being there are -- it's it's just a logical -- that we can eight it's a broad based. Anti discrimination. Law and I'll give any direction the court then need to be able to interpret it and."

" Interpreted in fair consistent way did what -- what the ethnic discrimination laws do is that may -- cut clarity. To our court it gives clarity to those who could be. Possible and the area that are too quick that not that nondiscrimination clauses apply. So you know -- I. You know I might agree with you sort of saw a link but when it come up practically the -- archer -- let -- work."

" There were it not workable if."

" NI MI argument to use it what you're proposing to put trans genders into anti discrimination laws. And hate crime laws is to give them a specialized glorified status on our legal system in courts -- liberal judges who were looking to. Did did too."

" We're trying to get women people of color and people -- special or buy -- thank I think this is giving people that there were -- Those -- enter in the same right to protect."

" And we need for 1960s or burst right back with and a -- at. This make the country that would landmark decisions dance and art. You know step out not."

" On now this is IR. I don't believe there's anything landmark about this except that it may be the moment at which people stand up and say enough already of trying to kidnap the civil rights movement. And say that people who want who choose to go in a hospital and have their physical being. Changed with through plastic surgery. Deserve the same protection under the law as somebody who was born black in a country that it's slaves did to me that's a grotesque distortion. Of what the civil rights movement is all about what this movement is all about Tony troopers -- on WRKO from Jane go she's arguing on behalf of legislation being considered at at the state legislature. That would provide hate crime protection and anti discrimination protection. Two trains genders so let's get some callers in on this Tony Brian embossed in your NW RQ with Toni troop high."

" And I just touting how she feels about two things one is mean Bill White male I -- close -- Disliked person -- popular. Culture today because I'm a white male appears not the first about me I'm not a special clock."

" that's why they invented plastic surgery. It's easy to -- us."

" So my question of the town is just -- at a first thought is. How you feel about hate crime legislation and not yet I am beaten copper up. But like. Democrat that -- some -- on different color. Beaten up about that type of -- that question. And that it."

" What's your second question right."

" my second question is that if this legislation passes -- we have transgendered people were all so part of this protected class. It's going to be another example. Or another situation in which. There's another class being elevated above everybody else tonight I'm not to be incredibly unfair discriminatory. And I don't think you're doing anybody any favors by having peace national laws and that's special."

" Big by you know Brian I do what you're forgetting is that that the democratic political model is based on keeping people divided by skin caller. -- ethnicity any other factor they can find because then that you they create special interest groups who they can bribe with special policies like this but go ahead --"

" Because the Republicans never bribe anybody that okay so I'm cute thing."

" Thanks. But -- is that it is simply. -- pre market cap that white men in this country are discriminated against because their weight."

" It. Is particulate will decide happening. It is ridiculous that the data that that's what's going on and ran."

" We look at that legislation it is not about elevating any that is right it is about recognizing. People's."

" Right at the Tony and reel it in real life. In real life that's not how it worked."

" In court you know if you look at all the indicators about who still have power in the country."

" Economic power political power. Go to our social power -- is a gender and race. Issue."

" White men. You pot party and other still have the vast majority of."

" I don't know we've got to -- We've got a black governor we have all black attorney general we have a black president."

" 800 punch you're left --"

" you're talking about right now -- you're talking about right now. You're saying right now -- guys hold the vast amount of the --"

" Hot but not right you're gonna tell me and we -- you do not recognize that you have privilege to the Koch Carol White man. Bet it that -- that statement. There are I don't work went and now I'm white I. Remembered for what it. Man and -- look at it tore at work what they recognized their privilege and no way that allowed them to still be our. And not feel threatened by somebody who is different these are the same particular hurt."

" Tony Tony I will. I will concede to you let me just jump in let's have a conversations and speeches."

" Because these are the same argument that we heard what we that we needed different colored border -- When we said that children were gonna be hurt. By -- actual agenda by Anita Bryant. Fear of a quality. Is really what put the heart of all of."

" I don't think so. I I you know I know for me it's not I want everybody be treated equally and I do believe firmly that politically what's underlying what you're working on. NE in the party that's behind it is special interest identity politics. That this is a good business model. For the Democratic Party let's get a caller in -- in the car you're on WRQ with Toni troop from Jane -- hi Barbara."

" You said that white people are I think college is employment there they have to have a quote certain amount of eight. The other thing it could our president he's black who -- speaker about it's a woman sitting here saying -- white people are white men in the well there are probably more white men and added. That country well I don't know."

" The car right concede to Tony that I think white man's still over all have the advantage would you do that. When you agree with -- A white men have the the upper hand overall. -- I think that's change okay thank. Well special interest groups have a lot of power is groups going agree there and that's what Tony hang on we're gonna take quick news update or break. And we will continue our congress say I like Toni troop -- joint proxy -- states and for more NWR --"

" 680 W -- you were talking about. Anti discrimination laws hate crime laws and adding trans gender people. To the class of people were protected under these laws I find all these laws offensive because they glorify our differences. I live with the dream. Of some day living in a country in which we judge people by the content of their character. Not some other factor Democrats and liberals of -- over dividing us by these other factors Toni troop is one of -- she's from Jane -- and she's all excited about this legislation. Now why I said before -- of the news break that. I agreed that white people white man. Our have a leg up on everybody else in our society and I know what the curious to that. And the curious something Democrats and I don't agree with and will not pursue and that would be to give everybody grade education. Get out of their way and let them go out and succeed instead we hold people in the bondage -- bad education and we create all these other programs. To try to manage. Who gets to succeed in our society and I just -- the whole premise Tony I want. I want people getting their jobs because they're captain Sullenberger. Not because there --"

" I appreciate the opportunity to. That contradictions the -- partners or equality of opportunity. Or equality. -- com. You know is a four admirable."

" And you know."

" We and we can then agree about the effect you know that the that it got I would get down to that you know into the double -- you know. That the -- different policies and approach is that we -- kept -- the -- that we can have on an agreement. You know about at. I you know that. At and I have I appreciate -- being a society where we can have that kind of opens you know and -- that -- patient does that mean. I think when it comes to."

" This that the legislation. We."

" You know I want to help explain why -- you know on two different models as you know supported. Reported that the that they can that we speak to add to that which is -- me."

" Don't live in the idea of propriety. We are building toward that. I think that. We take."

" That we are moving in the right direction. And of course are much certain days and they work you know 2030 years ago when it comes to its -- to securities are based committee to."

" We are making progress but we are not there yet."

" Yeah but I don't think you guys will everything where there. I think when there's a trans gender president of when there's a trans gender attorney general when there's a trans gender governor. You'll still be arguing there's not enough opportunity for turns genders but."

" But do you think the -- a black president -- bases and it's no longer a problem."

" Know why but it are exactly human. I but enough already weakened let natural events take their course when we so when we have a black governor black attorney general black president and a woman who's the secretary of state what we have proven is. That there is enough mobility in the culture there can back off. And go to the basic elements educate people let them live their lives."

" And what I would say it back into that these things did not happen on their own. We are not go ramp that are right they are not preempted equality we ought to them tooth and mail for years and decades and centuries."

" Exactly and on my concern is the you guys are so in the habit of fighting for more that you will never ever stop and that's all we see how it. And that's always CNN with the New Haven case the idea that you would have. Anyone dare to say oh yeah the test is invalid because no blacks passed it. When they do tests on a regular basis and blacks do pass -- itself is such a sick distortion of everything normal and right Tony. Animated him gross is a sellout."

" I I -- Only. Vaguely familiar with the people out of that."

" I'm not ask you argued that case. Are providing you I'd trying to offer you an understanding of where the ire comes it's like -- already leave us along with finding. New little groups of people and inventing new ways that there the next black. And people begin to be put into slavery it's just enough."

" And I and you know. I can hear what you're saying but I it how do you recognize how do you reconcile that. We don't real experiences. Of fear and violence -- discriminate."

" I would tell you how because. I'm not without sympathy. I'm not without sympathy to your fight I respect the fact the -- I just think you're doing the wrong way -- let me answer power reconcile reconcile it like this. The destructiveness. All of glorifying. People for their deficiencies so that they can go fight for the job I don't wanna be on an airplane. That's being flown by a trans gender who got the job because of some anti discrimination law. Instead of being in fifth in the plane the captain Sullenberger supplying when passing it down on the Hudson and to meet. I want an excellence based merit based society and your laws that you are fighting for I know your don't know with a pure heart. Resulting in -- distorting. Reality in order to get your guys ahead and that puts us all in danger on the spiritual and physical level."

" Well I you know I definitely disagree because I think that we are all smart enough I think that we have been working at that long enough to now that merit."

" Is not that that being. And nondiscrimination bills are not that petition for merit. They never happened that shouldn't be you know that is not what we're talking about what we're talking about is the fact that people are still today. Discriminated against. The -- and hurt. Typically the cost -- of who they are and these attributes that."

" You'll have the you know characterized as being a glorification of the art technical and I would characterize and they appreciation in value are different."

" That's Charleston one more thing we'll take calls and that is that I think everybody faces discrimination I faced discrimination I I don't know how you go through life without facing it. And that's where I feel that is a glorification if you decide to go to plastic surgeon. And it did make yourself from a woman to a man I don't think you become a man because of that. That's not discrimination that's practical. Michael Jackson made himself and a white man I don't think he was a white man when he died. I was a black man with a white skin that was artificially made that like that's just me Hamels who practical Johnny."

" I think that's -- that's being they were real and understanding about what it means to be trans gender."

" That typical to change it not being."

" That's a symptom now I understand that -- inside they are the opposite and and I understand there must be a cruel way to live your life Michael Jackson. Hated being black so much that he changed his appearance and when he went to have children he went and got the sperm. Although white guy so he could have kids are reflected his inner self I think it's a very similar situation. -- Quincy good morning aren't Tony you're on WRK with Toni troop from -- John. Doing good."

" Questions for victory the issue that you people applied for a job. All of that very well by this -- and make them vote. Of eight during the idea is if you. Want them. -- the brought -- back at sea change under it up it got that don't ask. Okay and -- a situation where. I want to get the job its agenda versus negative job because of that as an -- Mandela won a lot so."

" And that's what really got demonstrated by the New Haven firefighters case I think is that the fear of lawsuits once you empower classes of people. Off forces -- more power into the hands of those who were supposed to be fighting for equality so what you do is you cure the EU cure that. The misalignment of power by messiah aligning in the other direction."

" We're weren't they wearing you down aren't we time. You're about to switch sides in this debate are. No. -- Arlington given a shot TV at Tony to switch sides. --"

" ability. The only. Among all them you know realizing -- You'd probably be happier over in England where half the members of parliament run around in women's clothes and crop followers -- and they don't even have. Transient but it. But the other civil rights thing I think it's pretty humorous because. You know it seems like a human in different gender. Community loves to. -- of the people's rights and you know growing confidence that you. Demonstrators in California that were happy to be African American there where. Protesting against gay marriage the N word was thrown at them you know right out in the in the open. And I'd just sick of Childress wanted to clean up your own little society -- and then summoned all the rest about how to."

" here -- are -- style points how about the substance argument."

" It -- what what it in what sense I mean it's the whole."

" and if people if people get out of line at a protest that's not the essence of what they're fighting or that some circumstances rather fight."

" Such strategies trying to help the rest of the world how to operate their business -- you can't even you know you can around the province found in your straight person and the well you. You get heckled as it were true in the air. Please don't make -- attic area as to consult. Work done. Creating tolerance in new York community first before warned about the rest of us that's the first point. But just secondly it's just not practical you're gonna create more problems with this particular assault a bed --"

" You know -- the same argument they heard around color order. Great and it just about the -- and saying you -- I. Would bet that you do. Configure himself if I'd let you know in my forties and nineteen you know fifty during the camp are a lot I would have known they were wrong. It wouldn't have to she would run up -- eighty. That's social norms that that that. The way things are and it -- me because otherwise black people are trying to get something they don't deserve every nation in their place and other role. But hey you know your -- that's. And in forty years -- and I need to protect these are all gonna look at that they want it but that they'd be well. I can't wait to that they apathy on here at forty years."

" Well you know -- No it nobody is saying that about affirmative action programs for any group of people today there there are huge to a populations in this country. Who are offended by them still. And find them to be inappropriate and that they perpetuate the differences. And the emphasis on differences that those who pursue them claim to -- of."

" People like you know our governor and stay at our president of the united they -- benefited the cost of those very Pollack. Did our product and approved that they are not that they didn't work."

" While -- there one way that they did work that you have to weigh against the ways that they may also be very destructive and unbalanced."

" You think that the white person automatically has done."

" I'll have to."

" Now come -- now. Come on now don't be assigning any thoughts that I've never had you you're getting on callers that Allen in the car -- on Tony you're on W argue with Toni troop hi Alan."

" It's and I think they -- very in practicality cents."

" I have four boys under the age of eight. So they have shared bathroom with someone who's not sure what they're sexist."

" The question pertains to the effect Ali if thought in -- under six I know you understand I don't want explain the context as question. -- there's concern. That especially with an aspect of this anti discrimination legislation that would. Protect people who. Believe themselves. To be who feel inside. A different gender even if they haven't acted on changing it physically. And there's a concern that that would give them the right to go into the restroom of the opposite sex."

" I think that's -- I'm hearing it -- Allan park about the war like whether it hits in particular and other kids went to."

" I think that what does that about it recognize. That at a very got engaged."

" People who are actually it's better now that they're under and now what we are getting because we have come to understand the war."

" I mean that those kids are getting help its support that they -- and went back pocket there typically if you -- hopefully hopefully they appear. Typically that's helped. The order or advocate. Tell -- Are helping them figure out how to traverse the world and advocated in school whether it. I'll -- and edit or whatever figure out where they can be a place but it comparable about. And a -- I question for Allen would impact or might I might not be. I hope that you're raising your to be open minded and fair in treat people with equality and respect says that if they're not any different than them. That instead of being afraid of them. They won't come to know them and understand them as human being that that that fear will appear."

" Yeah -- I think what you're proposing with these legal changes by enhancing the power artificially. All of those who have those differences you're pointing to creates hostility and leads to a lack of understand."

" Now I don't think it I I think that the people who want to oppose that the cost of their fear."

" Curtis in the -- next NWR -- Toni troop like current."

" I -- we were elected say. You know. I know what try to know what's wrong. I. Moral obligation to fulfill. I do believe with guard Greg self point of view. To the point that I believe. Morality. Has. Popular. Very high standings. And I see society hauling away from it because. Certain BA real patents and out fan wow -- we can do it. Change our identity I mean I think we're losing the fact that you know god does play a role in society. And actually took a look at the numbers would be treated god being pulled out of society."

" So what -- wouldn't Jesus say that there should be special legislation protecting it trans genders."

" Well okay what what I say it was trans gender that basically. I don't see why -- should be protected and a certain class. Only because. If you do it. Then everybody else what -- behavioral problem went out to be put in sort that you're all Amy that there is a behavior problem or some sort of meant to be deep in --"

" Well certainly and mental defect is an -- how is it not a defect this in the construction process say obviously nor bill right right when they were in line for the gender they got the wrong line."

" Concern that the -- yeah -- used the word deep into a big difference between these defects and -- dike -- the gender identity to order. One it is very valiantly in terms that -- but there's one thing."

" Morally. Wrong with the president and the other says that that causes it is it is about what their experience. -- the on. Not. -- that it'd or what they are trying to do is to correct eight. -- Kind of conflict unlike in the -- they're not trying to impose that on anybody else. You know get it off the ultimate case I think one of the things up that even -- Tuesday's hearing. -- Apathy it went of people that they might not be quite yet transgendered man. Who had been dealing with the ignorant child throughout our whole life. And that happens now opportunity the cost of."

" Adequate camp that the -- we get -- and the more -- Chances mental health and others feel the heart of support to make that change and at -- once and their life feel good about now and feel that they aren't they should be."

" Principal lapping at the postal looking at it and the."

" Well I I certainly share your empathy the idea of going through your life looking in the mirror feeling like you're looking at the wrong person. Must be a horrible way to live your life."