Avi on Waterboarding

" And now there's time. -- how big cars show. Four LC memos that were released reflected in my view us losing our moral. Parents that's why discontinued. Those enhanced interrogation. Freedom. For those who carried out. Some of these operations within the fourth quarter us. Legal opinions or guidance that we've been provided from the White House. I do not think it's appropriate for them because of what the Obama people are doing in effect the same while we don't need those tough policies. That we had. So that says they didn't work. Well which we know is not the case that didn't work they kept us safe for seven years colleagues."

" Our she lost not because she doesn't believe in gay marriage -- California loves because he -- done. Okay we can allow climate change to run on natural havoc across the landscape of the warming. Has been able to be attributed to human activity. Now how little Lawrence. The planet has a fever come off color guard W arterial. Radio network."

" Good afternoon welcome back having Nelson and -- car on this Earth Day 2009. And we have polls celebrating that fact and how we poll brought do you live. Jeff Carbone insurance contact the commissioner Jeff -- all insurance dot com. To save money on your auto and home insurance. Jeff Carbone insurance dot com to save money on your auto and home insurance. Sending our poll his. Do you think the climate change is man made. Then five Maurice suggested that I think most of it is not turn our audience says. 92%. 92 reluctantly the same all day today despite having voting do not think it is -- me. Well we have a perceptive and wise audiences -- said it sure is nice to be surrounded by a flock of people who agree with you that. Let's in my room talk show host and matters controversial my perceptions rather find. I always she both points of view the one that's wrong in mind. -- clothes off this segment on. On earth today they mention our rendition and written an interesting call money and then there was a poll that I read. Earlier she closed the column with a slight modification. Of the palm. Where she says I'm more than Al Gore though I'm such a dot I can think for myself and his fans cannot. Yes ma'am -- yes people. Okay were going to jump shift now and I know there are people who called -- want to get on I was feel bad when I changed topics. There's even though they've done justice to words they we've done two hours on it. Then and that people who wanted to call in talk more about it that. At some point you have to make the shift. So I feel bad because there's some people who won't be able to you know and I apologize for that that there are other things that we should talk about I think. And so let's get to some of them now. In particular our distinguished president I want to start with he's the cabinet meeting then we're gonna go on too -- question about the prosecution. Potential prosecution. Bush Administration people. For what has gone on with the enhanced methods of interrogation or water boarding. But first. You probably saw that he had his first cabinet meeting. And there he pledged that. We're gonna -- a hundred million dollar option. Often the the budget -- require these cabinet to to save that kind of money. Now I do little mini U arithmetic. Just taking the budget not taking all the other expenditures or any of them. Not talking about TARP or the payload. But the 800 billion here and then 500 billion there in the enormous amounts of money. There are going to be spent on interest to checkered just that the budget very this year proposed. By the administration. It's around three and a half trillion dollars some people say three point six. Now a hundred million the issue should extraordinary numbers -- that it's hard to comprehend the but a hundred million dollars -- large amount does that would be for anyone lush green you and me. It's one to 35000. Of the budget one divided by 35000. Looked at another way. If you have an income of 70000 dollars a year. You were being asked to save two dollars. Not not twenty not 200 to two hours 170000. This is what the president thinks is worth still occupying his cabinet. And our own content are. Tension because everybody covered that -- the cabinet. Then he shed no quoting the president. None of these things alone are going to make a difference but cumulatively. They make an extraordinary difference. The temperature sensed you may read that again. None of these things alone are going to make a difference but cumulative -- there -- make an extraordinary difference. Because they start setting a tone and so we're going to do is a line by line. Page by page. A hundred million dollars there a hundred million dollars here pretty shoot even in Washington. And adds up to real money unquote. Now the whole of credit it's on its part the other question is Susan W in front of that word whole. That. Militia is a takeoff. And the quote from every direction. A billion here a billion there pretty soon you're talking real money. Who presumably should tuned to action was around what 4050 years ago. Don't look to the ironies here first learning direction never -- I know we attribute to mean we'd like to think he's senate as a Malaysia's senate. But nobody did. Secondly that was fifteen years ago push the CPI factor the Consumer Price Index factor probably around eight or so. So at the time directions said -- a million dollars was worth roughly eight times more than it is now so we have doing current parlance they. Eight billion here a billionaire what does Obama's say. Well not a million not 1000100. Million. Then he says pretty soon as a true real money. Well look. Of course is real money. The problem is that the way they're spending in Washington it is if it's not real money that's a problem with Obama's comment. -- hundred million here -- hundred -- there's a -- trying to. Impressionist with how much he shaving he's not seeing this -- you think peace lending gushed into the poor house. And spending these enormous amounts of money and -- system believe that because he. He instructions cabinet to save a hundred million dollars over three and a half trillion dollar budget. The huge cost conscious -- he's being efficient. This is nothing short of a scandal and that is to say is he's making joining us to believe that the but there's going to be some kind of shavings or that the people really concerned about the money. So we start with Barack. Well let's get to the the rather difficult and challenging question about the change in polishing. Then Obama has undertaken. Speaking of -- direction or misleading or that machine usual word directly fraud. Obama kept saying how he wants to look forward. He wants to. Constitution and future not the past. And even said that they weren't going to be prosecutions. Of the Bush Administration these people implementing the shall called torture policy. But then changed his mind don't throw it to the attorney general. And the attorney general says yeah he's going to look into it may the prosecution people. Well this is a terrible terrible precedent they are two aspects of this problem. And by the way and take no issue we're gonna go phone lines are open to you welcome to join us 877. 469432. To get to the phones and -- But we are talking about the so called enhanced interrogation techniques. -- live there were a number of them -- waterboarding is the one that comes to mind other two aspects of this problem one. Did it work. Or two. Whether or not it was sanctioned by this administration. Does it make any sense at all to go back and actually threatened legal repercussions against people who in good faith. We're following policies of the prior administration I know of no precedent during his streak for the America way this is done. So eager are the members of the left. The the blood thirsty people would moveon.org. In the others so thirsty are they for the blood of the prior administration. They didn't get the impeachment of George Bush and Dick Cheney at the time that administration was in office and now. They -- all -- because they have control of the White House and the congress and now we want to go after these people. I looked it up because I. I was aware of the the actual match but I didn't have the details. There's something called the espionage act of 1917. And that's -- became the sedition act of 1918. These attacks were done under the president she'll Woodrow Wilson a Democrat. Going to have to do -- legislation had to do was concerned about World War I in our entry into that war. They should be espionage act of 1917. Made -- just came. This came just after we entered World War I. -- at a crime for a person now reading to convey information with the intent to interfere with the operation or success of the armed forces of the United States. Four to promote. The success of its enemies. This was punishable by death or by imprisonment. For not more than thirty years. I can you imagine if that long were in effect today. Interfere with the operation or success of the -- to promote the section essentially generation. There -- a lot of people covered by that when there 1918. This was amended to the sedition act. The passage of this fact. Four made Americans to use quote disloyal profane scurrilous or abusive language. About the United States government flag or armed forces during the war during -- Now according now we all act also allowed the postmaster general to deny mail delivery to dissenters of government policy during wartime. These are actually enacted under democratic president of the United States Woodrow Wilson who was held in high regard. Then this was affirmed by the court there was no problem here. A year after the action pass change. Eugene debs was a socialist party presidential candidate was arrested and sentenced to ten years in prison. For making a speech that quote obstructed recruiting. One quote -- goodness structure of recording -- on all college campuses occurs and said we -- just -- every today. Debs ran for president began in 1920 from prison. The poet. And a friend of his then volunteers in the ambulance corps in French were arrested in September of 1917. Right after we were in World War I. Cummings espionage. Consisted mainly of -- and he's having openly spoken of his lack of hatred for the Germans. Just merely expressing lack of hatred. He and his friend were sent to a military detention camp. And they were there for three and a half months. He literal book about a novel. This show -- was eventually repealed and -- by the way. Bush pardoned by the next president of the United States Warren Harding after serving nearly three years. And the reason I mention this. He's do we know regard this as something outrageous how could such a thing ever -- I mean and gone to the suspension of habeas corpus that took place under Abraham Lincoln and there are other instances as well. The point I'm making is less. As different as we -- president was in terms of his view of this there was never talk of prosecution. People in the Wilson administration. Because they had done something. That disagreed in policy. From what the subsequent administration. Did. If you are going to allow this to happen. Always going to be willing to be bold enough support to even be honest enough to put legal opinions and writing. When they fear that he may yet unforced -- context in a future administration. President she knows you even know Laura license the president unknown. That they could come back and be prosecuted. And jailed for what they've done. It is an interesting sidebar and note. That members of congress have immunity from this. So even when it turns out that members of congress in new. About the waterboarding. And I think they game and we're probably gonna get we're probably going to find that out they cannot be prosecuted for but members of a presidential administration -- This is nothing less than a vendetta. They really ugly attempt at revenge. And for a man who goes around the world. Signaling -- his personal popularity. And the smiling face is the new image of America. For him to have condoned. This the beginning of a foray into the possibility. Of a witch hunt. And prosecutions in jail things just because people where the prior administration with a different view. Is unconscionable. Now I focused on number two. That is to say whether there should be repercussions for people are different policy. Number one was don't -- work. And it turns out that even the current. Head of intelligence Dennis Blair says it does. It did. As a matter of fact. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was subjected to only two people were subjected to waterboarding a little more aborted him numerous times. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed because of waterboarding revealed which called the second wave. Planned to use east to plan to use East Asian operatives. It crashed a hijacked airliner into -- building this time in Los Angeles. The -- Los Angeles -- inflows of Americans would have been killed. Well I don't proposition if we go through addition we no longer using so called enhanced techniques. And we have a terrorist attack I think but the people who should -- of the techniques Clark to be indicted for being complicity in the murder. Because here you have an opportunity to stop it and you don't. So we have on the one hand that the waterboarding did work on how many times has to work before we say -- to -- to use. And secondly we have the really ugly. Foray into an impression in the area by the Obama administration prosecuting people who gave legal opinion they don't approve of them don't agree with. In the Bush Administration. Your thoughts are welcome. Our phone numbers -- 774694322. Or 877. How we car. The email address she's a Nelson at wrko.com. I -- Little heavier -- now Earth Day and whether he alternated does or does not requiring power. But it's our world than months we had finished roof talking about whether we should live in cave since we're not this is the world which we do live show. I think we have to weigh in on this subject let's go back to lines now we go to Joseph good afternoon Joseph."

" Other -- adding that your name I just not I'm on the show right now so. Well I would do and I'm I'm a veteran district tours and -- for people. Who are talking about interrogation not working -- I've never seen any waterboarding are you like. You know -- never -- any contact with any high value targets percent or anything like that. But I have been in a row and we work with the Iraqi police officers. I have been an out of Anbar Province -- better Rome where they've brought it and I've I've read and maybe one other American interpreter. Brought in an Iraqi were blindfolded. I got off the street that they think is bad that these -- neighborhood police officers. Start the question is I live my entrepreneurs in my -- tell you what he's saying start saying I killed destroy America and I did this -- that. Because you don't build Iraqi police if -- he says there's no Americans around and -- there's no Americans around. In my daughter -- mob or something a little bit this guy is singing like a bird series they've taken blindfold -- just -- insurance smiles. Sit back and insurance smiled and -- we can't touch it -- we can't do anything to shut up doesn't say things we can't really use any of that stuff against everything we commuted throne intelligence. But that -- you know so forbidden -- say that in irrigation or anything goes. They did does work it just once these people get into and -- Americans. They know they have the same thing I mean as you go public how how important a good idea to be keeping that waterboarding. Our assist soldiers don't get do you interrogation techniques like bad and we showed them. -- we don't even have to specialists in there who can do it for our own intelligence you know don't have high level."

" You know just -- you you raised yet another aspect of this which is now that we tell the enemies while we will and won't do. We of course. Enhancing their strategy we give them a grow a greater. Understanding of what's going on we give them were recruiting tool because lingo laden say hey don't worry about the Americans and -- mean there are going to California based."

" What can we can threaten them with the -- you question them that's what bit that's our problem always was. We can't even ask them where they live because they can just shut up be quiet and lawyer rob really. Wire and I'd finished in the streets have -- do you just shut up."

" You -- them that they will not get any pastry. Got a very -- I've got a question. I got a question enough for you the honeymoon no one of the charges that I've heard is set off. There when you use these techniques say they'll give you information that's false how did you know that when he was singing that it was a truce on."

" Because speed. I don't know that it's cents per say but I do know that when we do it does. You know I want to say what I was -- you I don't even know what the repercussions for any of it says. But we used to take individuals that we thought were bad and give them to the Iraqis because they don't follow the same -- as we do. There they deal would put the Iraqi police they would come back dust. They give it consideration and we were back Donna and it would be true. What I don't know what they did. But demand for talking to American intelligence guy interrogators. I -- we've got -- and it makes sense what you're under that much stressed we I mean it takes a lot of our process to think of a wide. I mean you got you all you're getting it irrigated like got a question you can just makes stuff up off the top your head."

" There's another point too -- that they stop singing when they to a new and they took off the blind -- rise of the guy were singing a fall song. He could've continued singing when he shot you are you -- a matter of fact he clammed up indicates that. That you know he -- what he was saying before was not something you want to the continued saying no surprise Jewish joke. Well thank you you know I really appreciate the inside because -- somebody who's -- arrest of mr. Jordan -- batting this around intellectually. Well done what do you do now -- of."

" Are right now I'd go to school and I'm up private investigator."

" Quote I wish you well thank you for your service to America. You know I I know it's a little bit off topic but you did she what was going on in Iraq what should take it in terms of what what's happening there."

" All right I mean -- I mean think they're gone -- sister there's such a different. Culture -- we are so -- when you know I was very for a long time so what I see as progress. People in America like what I really progress -- look at them are still gone crazy but I look at as you -- but. It's still really progress to you that -- cultures so much different you know they're not they're not going to be America but there are a lot better could've been -- then. They -- province from all 405 and and for most 6208. Source all the whole Anbar awakening solve all I saw all that have been likened real."

" I don't want the final a final question Joseph."

" If for eight different America keeps doing what we have to do yes but I mean -- well it probably -- exploit -- it takes. Thirty years they're -- Sixth save a country like that until those children that were born in the last 34 years until they -- power. Until the author indoctrination they have isn't. In their heads anymore. Then you know we're gonna it's gonna take a long time I'm not I'm merely saying full scale. But it's -- I'm actually pretty weird stuff from school books there are some Iraqi flag on the moon and -- I just."

" Very -- and Iraqi flags on the moon."

" Yeah we're gonna we're gonna go out we broke book and I ask -- tell me what that was gonna say that's where -- Iraq what to do in ninety whatever. We're going to score -- you know stuff -- that's crazy."

" Yeah I guess so Joseph thank you and best of luck to you thanks for -- Your -- and it's good to rise. Yeah I know not happy -- went to the moon. Made 774694322. This is on the Nelson and -- car program."

" We good morning."

" This is Donnie Nelson in for Howie Carr. On Earth Day 2009 the only day of the year we get to do this shows him -- day at the end of march of this whose -- we're past that now we did."

" We hurt ourselves enough. Two -- onto other things and a phone number for you to participate. Any critique of the Obama administration in the new policy of let's prosecute the guys who went before us. Hoover enhanced interrogation techniques -- phone number can connect. Is 877. How we caught. On the keypad or 8774694322. My email and Nelson at wrko.com. No I never recommendation you'd be caller number five or shakes. Right now at 6179311680. And if you do who call in in our number five or six or five and six. You'll win a fifty dollar gift card to order a formal offer Mother's Day brunch on Sunday may tenth from 11 AM to 2 PM. Please call 6173854300. For more information reservations. But to win UB caller five or six necessarily going to be two winners. That's 61793. Want 1680. To okay let's go back to. Matters at hand I don't I just find it outrageous now I must say that I am among those. Who think that. You can indeed use torture undershirt and conditions I'm not sure should talk a lot about a but I want you mention. Make your loved ones. Are in building somewhere. Then they're going to be blown up. And you we have the suspect in custody. No wish the details of the mom. Are you really telling me that you would sit there and say come -- now we can only discussion within that if he doesn't revealing information well. We have to live up to our high moral line deals. And as your ideology of high moral ideals also include letting people dying over. I think that's just absurd. I'm Michael -- waterboarding you know we water board our own pilots if it's done. Desi technique to train them as to what they may have to go through now -- It's probably psychologically different. When you know that the water boarding is being done by your guys and won't go beyond a certain point or maybe it's psychologically different. When you're seeing that we do that. We'll also be interesting to note that while Obama is disapproving on this this standing on allegedly high moral ground. He approved air strikes. Against terrorist in their homes. In the far east. And people got killed. The family members got killed at the terrorist unit his family of the terrorists. Now in the interest in moral calculus that we foreign nationals and engaging. How do we square off then it's okay by the president. By presidential order. To kill women and children. Who have been to be families of the terrorist but none okay. Do you use waterboarding which doesn't remove any permanent scars doesn't leave any permanent marks and certainly does not cause death we can't do that to get information that will save American lives. You thought you welcome. 87746. -- 4322 Mike you're next on the program good afternoon."

" But I can't protect every job they don't want to congratulate -- Europe. We're very characteristic does cool so well thought out. Argument you've relative to the ridiculous because -- associations. Are 400 million dollars. In my you've seen very simple arithmetic rather than referring to a 71000 dollar a year -- in com. If you look at it we -- 300 million people in this United States. So what would amount to 33 cents per person for you here. Four. To the system is just to -- you get your car respond with that that this of them were ridiculous."

" For a you know -- You know it's Mike you know which even more offense should talk to mom makes more on that deal in your I do."

" Well I I was -- to bring it out to double even assembly of Bob I. Who would only cost will they can only be saving a dollar and a half a year and -- no doubt. There are families. 23 or five course spreading ten times that -- lottery tickets every week."

" Let's write silly issue religion is senate to have bring your family so you save more crime than a hundred million dollar a lot better for your -- quite well taken -- thank you for calling union good good for you deal with these enormous numbers. It's hard to come up with ways that somehow they they resonate I don't know how to to fathom a trillion dollars. I know there's ten to 122000 billion GA annual -- believed he really understand it. 100 million dollar savings on the screen that trillion dollar budget I said that can make 7000 dollars a year it's two dollars saving. To a 35000. If you make 35000 dollars a year. Obama's suggestion that you save a dollar one single dollar. That's the equivalent of forty asked his cabinet to do and then he had the nerve to demonstrate as if oh it's important and going to send the signal and I'm I'm in favor of trimming the budget and I'm gonna cut the deficit. That's a lot of harm. Back to the -- 8774694322. Janet you're next on the program good afternoon."

" Actually. I'm really quick comments first of all -- go the end and that you're kidding this is yes and that yes cannot tell you Eddie. He would not want to roll well period and then leave the kids that know what sit about what -- about. And Norman would control the secondly if they want to investigate them another teen -- investigated for the kind of they could -- go after September 11."

" No we forgot all about good -- Shandi murder right."

" Right and then came in. Yeah. Look in the label it as different in the United States Department of State Pendleton in Johnson during the Vietnam wall. They the conclusion quite as cool at a lot of things going on I got to go through our. Similarity to mention Lyndon Johnson and temporary duty and I traveled all over the world and I -- just kind of comment back. American. As a whole. The media and are Americans. I don't know -- e-book. About how this type of situation that is incredible and I would go if I -- to say -- until Obama became president. He also worked -- and I -- And there have been incident should. We believe and we didn't have a September 11 prolonged time or other. Many -- Hollywood supposed to be doing okay Jimmy Carter came and he got it our military -- guided the CIA. They any better friend to me that in the five in the final week. Okay and when I served basically to patent. I am a contrary -- always been a conservative but I serve my country has served under Lyndon Johnson but I served my country. And that's really my feelings or whatever I saw him lit up by I was -- regulation situation. I was privy to information. -- we -- working. It'll clip on an eight up on a regular basis and I you know they get -- kind of rescue. People come -- Congo and joining me that would cause its controller Congo an often look don't think going and duration how much. They knew how -- you cannot make a decision."

" Okay -- thank you for your call. We didn't got the CIA. Did did come have to Jimmy Carter there was all sorts of stuff about the improper. You shouldn't Monday at centro abroad and we will be getting involved in bribery and all the stuff and we got the CIA -- Yzerman the late seventies and they yours. And then when no -- happen. We asked a question -- our intelligence how -- we don't have any human intelligence there why why are -- on. Those satellites and and that technology cleaning people on the grow. Well this is what happens when you start releasing memos. Well what people dead and that was so that W Obama administration just released information about. The CIA. And and didn't -- enhanced techniques. And the there was there was opposed by anomaly the current director. But all four previous predecessors. Well he started doing this you demoralized people who worked entrusted with keeping us safe. And if you prosecute. People who gave a legal opinion lawyers. The gave a legal opinion that there in their view. Waterboarding in some of the other things that there were done like sleep deprivation etc. these enhanced techniques so called. Just because they gave the opinion that that was allowed and now they're gonna be crushed you mean since -- How many people do you think you're gonna do this in the future. Not gonna happen where we're gonna end up amid escalating our own efforts at preserving the security of the United States. Hey it's just it strikes me is as crazy. Counterproductive. Wrong headed and -- useful community it's really mean spirited. How can we go back to lunch with today the break we take a break we'll be back on the other side this is -- in tune with the Howie -- program."

" Welcome back -- Nelson in for how we caught. This is earth today. Well we've always celebrated -- wise urged them. Then in this area anyway it's raining appropriate first thing. Nourishing meal is getting us all away at 8774694322. Is -- phone number. 4877. Howie Carr on the keypad they Nelson at wrko.com. -- email address. Go back to the telephone line telephone number. 87746. -- forestry to do next and real good eating all afternoon Neil. I type."

" look think that this discussion about the you know at an interrogation techniques over the last couple of days and yeah you had to be setting up this sort of false -- codec carbon economy whether we're either going to do water for boarding or we're gonna do nothing I think that's you know you made this sort of childish comment about the pastry. And it's that the -- honest intellectual argument. You know the elimination of waterboarding. Doesn't mean we're not going to do anything what do we do well there's. You know this -- deprivation in his normal intelligence. Is."

" deprivation like us sleep deprivation and dietary limitations."

" No more like isolation of the types of things very confined to schools something like that I mean I'd I'm not an expert ought to put. He seemed to be so I know I know I know talk radio is not designed as a serious political. Form it's designed to insult. You know to criticize Obama so you know when you talk a -- doing that waterboarding or feels there's other things to do besides waterboarding. And kind of you know I'd also point out that. In the in the bill of rights and our own eighth amendment to the bill of rights they talk about cruel and unusual punishment so -- part of our culture."

" Let me -- let me jump in here -- first of all -- temporary confinement to small -- he's one of the enhanced techniques that you apparently would allow that and now the Obama administration won't. You talked about TH amendment and cruel and unusual punishment that's true American citizens right that's. Punishment by our government to American citizens. Neither that nor the Geneva conventions apply to these terrorists they are not a member of the uniformed military force. So the the question of jurisdiction is important we did prosecute Japanese soldiers who used waterboarding on American prisoners of war. But those were -- those were offenses that violated. Which you can do really captured prisoner. These people do not fall into that category S number one and go back a little bit. On the one hand you're listening to a talk show and you're participating in a talk show and I'm really glad you called in because it's very nice to have somebody who was descending point of view. But then you disparage the talk show my talk about my quip about the nine pastry. Was understood I think by everybody to have been just in effect they have a sarcastic rejoinder joke if you will. Not a serious suggestion as to what our interrogation. Technique would involve. But now let me ask you you said there are other things that can be used and that's true I suppose. But it was specifically waterboarding. Which god can Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to reveal the information which until that point he would not reveal. About. You seem to think that all really would have given that information. Using other techniques but it turns out they try other techniques and you didn't give the information. She'll let me ask you questions I posed for your hypothetical. Which is not purely academic because we know what's happened if you have somebody in custody. And you are convinced that he has information. Which will cause the imminent destruction. Of multiple human -- We Julian dean not resort to waterboarding to find out."

" Yeah I'm not comfortable with waterboarding but I would do everything else that might."

" Five -- I -- is due to a break but I appreciate the call this is now because program."

" Once I'm on the plane received."

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" home for holly -- in February afternoon from realism. --"