Joan Vennochi

" Every Monday at this time we talked to a columnist from the Boston Globe and love to do it look forward to it. He can -- always obviously get the latest on local and national politics business and -- with convenient home delivery of the Boston Globe or are now at 50% off just call one. 888 by a globe that's 1888 my globe. Mention the special radio -- or go to Boston Globe dot com slash. Forum that's Boston Globe dot com slash forum that might be some restrictions but don't worry about a we have no restrictions on what we're about to talk about with. Jones an Iraqi hey John -- time no see doin' great thing Q you are great to join us. This and I want to get raided two would briefly on the Republican side 'cause I want to say that the save the bulk of our conversation. For the Hillary. Iraq exchanged particularly in and around civil rights but the I wanted to help me handicap to the extent that you feel load you know window on what's unfolding in front of our rise. McCain and Romney and let's not forget. Rudy Giuliani how should we be looking at that race how is it unfolding -- your assessment."

" Well as everyone has said our it was kind of -- our robbed in this again and I would open apple and it is. Opposite."

" That's yep that's us. That sounds like it's breaking up can we make a quick call back to Jonas if we can get a little bit more secure allied that was see that might be weather related that might be the -- who the heck knows what it is. The will reach out to -- make sure that it's a secure one. I think I'm not gonna finish that thought for Joan heaven -- about qualified to do that. But to the parts it took to the putt that I could gleaned from correct initial remark it was that it would be a mistake to count out Mitt Romney based upon his less than impressive performance dollars less than Victoria performance let's say that way. In New Hampshire and is less than victorious promise into performance in Iowa he has -- Wyoming we realize that that's not the end of the world. And you know second place performances not necessarily bad but not certainly what he hoped for not to return on investment and -- the accurate that's the way I phrase that at least. Does a guy it was venture capital guys and looks for certain returns on time a definite money in the like this was not adding up to him by don't -- at this what I said last week I'm curious as to what Joan. We'll say and how we can we can handle that what we would -- establish contact with Joan again but my own sense of it was that if Rodney looses in Michigan. This could be the beginning of the -- great we have live reestablish contact are going to blame it on meteorological conditions Joan ally and now."

" Around the clock clock clock clock -- Ayodhya -- you know that's my kind of political dirty trick I like yeah that's a good one. I."

" I would say he is writing a very positive campaign basic any kind of I think he titled learn the lessons from. Iowa and New Hampshire where the negative stuff just didn't get him anywhere. But no surprise it's all about telling the voters what they want to hear the canes telling them not all good job. Come back they have to read will be economy and Romney is saying I'll fight for every last want. Little bit different story when he -- Adventure capitalists in. In Spain when he bought up companies laid off people and then resold them but you know."

" Yet the venture capital people particularly Dana I mean that they agree yeah I think you make a great point they did some ball companies they find value in the pieces of it. But it's not as if for the most. That they have built that up and grow it and have a you've written really have a -- a particular. Particular locality and I think Ted Kennedy was maybe the first -- to expose that at least in the political arena."

" Right and -- I would McCain campaign outlet that'll both old -- yet -- pretty much different barrels Romney when he was running against Kennedy back in 96."

" Quick question on Giuliani and then we're gonna get right to the Hillary Iraq stared down that's going on. But Giuliani has made you know really taken a gamble was wrote. To his on his road to the White House hasn't really actively participated in any of the contests dust -- And seems to be saving himself for Florida. And super Tuesday so called do you think it is a strategy that has a prayers chants of four success."

" Well -- what type -- that is that he gets to camp and warm weather everybody else that stretching arrangement and know what had. Now if this one works in after last week when the hundreds of rock on everything I'm not going to stand here it has notes and -- both adults but it seemed to me are unlikely that ready if it instability what are other -- an equity to it."

" Now well we'll see -- mean every -- my my fear I guess might my assessment of disability Oz who knows particularly given the the you know the the -- in the a missions of the pundit class last week -- New Hampshire. But he runs a huge usual risk of all the momentum all the public attention all the media commentary. Beginning to really just envelop Romney McCain and Huckabee and he becomes a non factor simply because he chose not to be a factor in any of those states. In any event let's stay with let's they were Hillary. And Barack Obama dynamic that's unfolding each has won one contest. Each well financed and well organized each very different messages with different tone and different emphasis. And -- Hillary finally gets on to -- which is never an easy never -- easy place for any aspiring candidate Joe what's your take on where we got today."

" Well -- and -- combative. I -- and and if she found her voice and answer I'm not sure she had the right late yesterday with with Tim russert and that helped Obama."

" Let me you know we have some sound from Tim russert let's let's play a clip -- a clip here there and I'm just going to ask the commentary. You put you probably won't be surprised that I -- of the pots that I sorry and see the entire idea of it probably three quarters of it. I didn't think she was particularly defensive but I did think she did not want to have Barack Obama get away with what. What was -- well bill called it a fairy tale on on Iraq we he is indicated consistent opposition and yet his votes in congress show something different let's go to that first clip."

" A Clinton camp -- Obama attacks painful for black voters many in state offended by criticism of Obama. In remarks about Martin Luther King. I can also sense how hard the Clinton camp was working to undermine senator Obama's main theme. But a campaign based on hope and healing could unify rather than -- forward polarized the country. So there was the former president chastising the press for the way it was covering your Obama campaign. And saying of mr. Obama's effort quote the whole thing is the biggest fairy tale ever seen. And there was mrs. Clinton telling the country we don't need quote false hopes and taking cheap shots out of all people the reverend doctor Martin Luther King junior. We've already seen Clinton service trying to implant false idea that mr. Obama might be a Muslim and perhaps they drug dealer to boot. What is this."

" All of well beats me because there's not one shred of truth in what you've just read and I regret that because obviously. A lot of people have been you know given information or an impression is -- absolutely false."

" Tim russert very challenging reading a series of headlines did Joan and and Hillary Clinton's response back. I cringed I've got to tell you John I cringed when I heard. The utterance of the accusation that somehow or -- the Clinton campaign had taken cheap. Shots that was the words they used at Martin Luther King I haven't seen that I haven't heard it and and -- tell me how that strikes -- that whole exchange strikes you."

" Well you know -- I gotta agree with you on the Martin as The King and I mean like she is basically saying is that there are. Political outsiders and activists and change happens when they. Purse and make it happen and and forced insiders to react to. I don't think that it's cheap shot in -- McCain it's kind of an accurate assessment of politics in America. If people -- the Clinton campaign is playing the race card I think you could turn it around and say the Obama campaign is playing the race card on this one."

" And that and and this is not just an academic discussion that you and I -- having and the political science department at northeast and how that this is this is all happening as South Carolina unfolds in front of our rise. With a very very high percentage of African American voters many of them intrigued by the real possibility. That African American might very well be the nominee -- law the president the United States so this and bean bag -- is serious stuff."

" Right you know I've I've got to be the echo chamber here she is seen -- I believe she is right on the merits of the argument. But how -- played in South Carolina may have nothing to do with the actual merits of the argument. Politics is all about the emotions that are raised and and how you know. People hate when emotions they take into that that voting place and they vote so it it could very well help Obama but. I mean I agree with you on that particular exchange issues right on the -- even the thing about you know Bill Clinton saying the whole -- as a fairy tale. Well in the context in the full concept of what he was addressing. That Barack Obama gave a speech against the war when he was state legislator Illinois but once in Washington voted exactly as Hillary Clinton. -- all. Net is concerning the war it is something of fairy tale to say Barack Obama is this great. Al House Speaker against the war he may have spoken out against the would -- do it and it not been more or less than Hillary Clinton."

" Yeah it seems -- five might or might my view on it is that the press has done a wonderful job making him seem as if he's -- Gandy is something the ultimate nonviolent philosophical. A conscience of the world which I think is far from the truth let's do another cut if we can't Hillary talking about seeing Martin Luther King speak about civil rights."

" Tim I was fourteen years old when -- doctor -- speak in person he is one of the people that I admire most in the world and the point that I was responding to from senator Obama himself in a number of speeches he was making is his comparison of himself to president Kennedy and doctor king."

" That is. Hillary Clinton tell me I mean defensive all do you think she was connecting with people the issue she is around personal experience. Fourteen year old young young woman fourteen year old girl in the audience found so moving that she continues to identify about Luther king is one of the great heroes of her life Joan does it play. Is it authentic."

" Well I think you know he could not I would I would say and that -- she's sending you know a bit defensive and from the perspective you know the black voter services to light other -- And black Americans going to connect and think about art that the -- you know it and that and it. A different ways that Hillary Clinton is and I don't know if they'll think that that's a substitute or you know equal to. But physical on the stand at this point."

" And who drew the drama that's unfolding in front of our rise on this one is unbelievable when you really if you've written about it -- who historic candidacies. And whether in the engine that trumps race or race trumps gender I don't remember seeing anything like this in my a kind of political lifetime."

" Well not after remember that we had Bill Clinton. -- has the longest time you know by the -- the mantle of being the so called first black. President -- yes being embraced by pretty African American voters in America now. At legacy optic and you know Barack Obama is at the prom it doesn't get what --"

" Now initiate any you mentioned you know given that legacy given that name and reputation which he and -- they both have cultivated as a couple but the first black administration of the first black president. This has to be a particularly delicate walk. Four of them let's go to a cut if we can't Hillary listing some of the things that Martin Luther King did and suffered which Barack Obama has no familiarity with."

" And there is no doubt that the inspiration offered by all three of them is essential it is critical to who we are summation what we. I believe in the dreams and aspirations that we all have. But I also said that you know doctor king didn't just give speeches he marched he organized he protest that he was -- he was beaten he was jailed."

" And it was assassinated. In his assessment for those views in the activism that he that he brought again. I thought and you know and maybe it's just -- different audiences Joni you and I you know white Americans of black America seeing and hearing issues around -- Luther king of civil rights may be with a different year in the different -- you and I see them. I thought she handled that well and just pointed out very. Objectively and factually. -- Luther king did a number things Barack Obama they -- accounts. Hold it against -- he's glad that the beneficiary of how file America has moved on race since -- Luther king and other civil rights leaders but. He is he not getting a wave -- you know. White America's timidity on this on these issues."

" I think what you possibly testing is this kind of -- generation gap that Barack Obama has tried to used to his advantage of that cheese. In that experienced people old and that he's done well the kind of because -- to cut real life experience. Basically lip of the sixties -- eat the embassy to activism were planted at that would pop -- gone. The sixties -- is that an -- Identities flip through and people of our agent generation will connect and relate to that argument. And at least in the cancer that was the age group that that pattern over the top -- It was a it was a young voters kind of deserted him -- one that would have his. Worldview our view you know like where we aren't America didn't come brute force and our voters do it now. You know you may be right Cheney could be striking in the right on the voters -- that she can depend on."

" Just I'm I'm just absolutely fascinated by it almost on the point of an obsession now and obviously some of our callers as well with talking to Jones and hockey as we do every Monday when we talked to globe columnist. And journalists with talking about Hillary's appearance on meet the press. Let's take a couple of calls of we can Gerrard is calling from Milton John Iran -- with -- and hockey of the Boston Globe and Tom Finneran on AM 680 WRKO."

" Good morning to both -- you watched the tedious presentation Hillary Clinton -- depressed and you know as to ovals Barack Obama not marching with Martin king. Well Hillary didn't Markus Susan B if any either I gave the impression they had and watching that are tedious performance was that she actively choose. Learning for per second term as president. It was very defenses you know and interest try to hold on position she's already have. And her best defense against -- Burkle bomber allegedly eventually supporting the war Iraq was well its position is no better than mine once I was wrong and he was."

" But hold on hold a -- let me jump on that just -- right away because if in fact put yourself for a moment did Hillary Clinton's shoes. And you had seen narrative developed from Iraq himself in from the mainstream press that indicates that. He has been consistently philosophically opposed -- on the line 2 on Iraq. In that she has been wrong consistently he has been right in yet. When he finally joins the Senate and Jones said this yourself a moment or two ago. In casts votes on funding and other Iraq related measures. His vote is either the same ministers or law he votes present how how does he get away with that and why would it be if if in fact or go back to my original what I -- put yourself in her shoes why wouldn't you be both defensive you combative if you were opponent was getting away with that type a narrative."

" first vote is vote present and was in the Illinois legislature on in congress and second it was a huge difference between voting. To fund the -- complete the troops that are there rather then. The initial vote that that put them there and in Hillary Clinton has to face the fact which he voted for the initial authority of vote for bush to send these troops here I think it's is to whatever degree deserves. He -- or borrow Obama is being responsible in would have been very responsible thing just cut off funding for people who were there."

" John D by it is I don't John theory."

" I don't buy that argument I you know I just think it's a lot different. Speaking out against the war from the Illinois State legislature and the areas from the US congress. And I do think there have been Democrats. Cool you know voted -- what they believe what they said was their conscience in terms of funding the troops in the war. And then she could've done at a -- if you really felt that he didn't. Once and that is that I do you know kind of kind of resonate. I think. Watching Tim russert and Hillary Clinton and listening to the clips on the radio maybe sort of like watching the Kennedy Nixon debate and put into it on the radio. They could be something about her state. Tony -- comes across in television screen. That makes it look consent defensive. That doesn't sound quite -- way over the radio."

" Interesting point let's take a call from Jim James calling from pocket New Hampshire he was at ground -- judgment day last week junior -- Iraqi."

" Actually will be according to vote you -- calling from Concord Massachusetts but I do work in Concord."

" They are -- well I knew I got I I headed 5050 odds."

" So that the the angle my comment is really about how disappointed me double. Immediate outrage. Works in this debate and I'll bring up two examples one is. Russert interview Hillary Clinton I am absolutely opposed Hillary Clinton but. When -- quotes some columnists talk about it characterization of comet about Morton with the -- and never. Even quotes the actual combat that the columnist was talking about as -- interface. On national TV I just think that's you know that's beyond the pale cheeks her reaction should be and yeah. Exactly what continent are you talking about who made it went and explain to me how you know -- throat Morton was looking -- the bucks. And if you can't -- want to the next question I mean you know so military outlook you'll be quoting -- problem."

" John this is just specialty."

" Like yeah I tell daylight I agree that the color that Kim -- that actually twice is quoted from my column it's been a really nice Sunday when he had to. I would play those and it's your car on the net gear your vomit if she heard it thought. But you know exactly right I have been especially after last week and how again how all of -- punditry was so run. Like he's should be using that as a reference point is a very good question. At least hitter with the exact quotes hitter would be you know her own words don't hitter with a columnist interpretation that it."

" Sure -- Let's do well actress the cabbie for row last call with Jones and Iraqi Chris Chirac the it would -- and Iraqi and Tom Finneran."

" And so -- throughout welcome back -- western great well thank you there. I wanted to say I think Hillary's early get a little period as she's tapping into what I'm definitely -- a lot of might a lot of my generation is feeling which as you know we've watched I'm Luther king and -- get assassinated when we were 56789. And you know what would you do as a conservative would be able conservative truly conservative candidate left the opposite -- notably for him. You you know it definitely follow images from as the -- then that which can make a social statement. And finish where my outlook for king was boring knots and and that's what sort of as we feel like quit doing. The last thing you know a bit to say what -- only -- that that prompt."

" Channel that Joe what do you think generational call to the -- Tia."

" Are you saying that that means a vote to Barack Obama. I absolutely Will -- does not it and he is like the last conservative where he's not even a troop disturbance the last woman has some of the -- don't want to see happen. And if it's not that it's just don't meet people from a different stopped the ultimate -- them not to mention that seems to be. Young about in the political scene where maybe it has so little all. That that maybe he's going to try to do the right thing because want to see your problems if he gets them in -- you don't see him as a liberal. I don't see I don't -- I don't know but you don't want to get a little comments that social comment that would -- to some place some offered him ever ever it was going to be kind of liberal everywhere and it's going to be left out from the social comment to you work as well it bought."

" While -- it sounds as if -- Chris is a doctrinaire conservative but if he can't get his first wished. That he's going to go and make the broader social statement that we associated with the civil rights movement of the have you know the fifties and sixties."

" I could take double what at a at an and that it could it. It could elect Barack Obama and again -- a microcosm of that you can execute its people felt really good about. Voting for the ball tactic I think for some of those reasons. That it would put. The states would put allowed the state of Massachusetts to put a lot of unpleasant history behind it met his -- into the country at this very powerful argument."

" That's -- that absolutely amazing children hockey you have been great with its time would love to chat with -- hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Keep in mind that every Monday we'd do this segment this -- chip. With got Boston Globe columnists and and reporters. And it's always so easy to get the latest on local and national politics business and -- with convenient on delivery of the Boston Globe or are now at 50% off just call 1888. By a globe. And mentioned this special radio off outlaw go to Boston Globe. Dot com slash forum some restrictions apply. Most appreciative to Jones and hockey great great insight on the Hillary Tim recipe exchange yesterday and I'll be back to you and your calls in a moment on AM 680 WRKO"