Whalen and Gertz

Do you think the deck and -- navy today is. Maybe a little bit behind what got us in this mess in Iraq.

Well you have that -- on the other hand I think the administration is starting to wise up on Russia a couple of months ago the Vice President went to Europe and gave a pretty tough speech and said hey look. The Russians are cargo on south Thomas here they're starting to squeeze other neighboring countries through energy and I don't think you mentioned their intelligence activities but -- there operating it Cold War levels it's very interesting week we don't have a good hundred understanding what the Russians are up to but basically it's kind of a combination of organized crime and former KGB intelligence people are coming to dominate this. In a new kind of stayed isn't in in Russia they're moving away from democracy in -- they're moving they're not Communist anymore but there are still moving unit in the very unfriendly direction.

There's no doubt about it in the you know this guy with an ankle is not the first one to go down as -- someone speaking out about Putin there was the journalist. In upon the butcher her name -- Korea who is investigating chechnyan know there was a Forbes magazine editor so Putin seems to have be pretty quickly the trigger for any kind of well incidents

give you my take on it there's -- there's two explanation personal we don't know the whole story. But I deviate too pretty good assessments from from people who do know a lot of things about the Intel world one is that that's an -- was killed -- hit by this federal security bureau SP. And and that was because music critic it was meant clearly to send the signal to other dissidents the on the other hand -- from from the intelligence point of view it was a pretty sloppy way to do business because when the Russians have killed people in the past the recent past. They don't duel with poisoned. There can be traced they do it to make it look like a suicide or car accident war you know simple burglary robbery you. Ending up in murder and so there's some -- would there's one theory out there that opponents of Putin are trying to make it look like he did I'll be honest I don't know which it is I tend towards the first thing that it is. You know some of the what they called the wet work the Russian intelligence service going after critic.

It was certainly done pretty sloppily I mean this is like -- contaminated sites all over London including the planes and -- hotels and restaurants and everything else.

Right and the other thing. Just today in fact the Canadians expelled us Russian illegal now this is another case where the Intel professionals tell me that you know this there's some strange here because illegals are really did the real spies they're people who oppose as foreign nationals they're Russians -- in this case Russian posing as a Canadians and for them to get caught. And and indicate the indications from the court papers looked at this and a -- written -- it -- again there was a lot of sloppy work from an organization that in the past doesn't make those kind of mistakes too often.

Speaking of bill Gertz he's the national security -- for the Washington times it's also the author of a terrific book enemies. Bill tell -- little bit about the book because it involves China and Russia to a great extent.

Yet has a lot to do with current events I mean it fits in reform it's going on the book is is really about counterintelligence issues that is. Who can spy on the spies on the one hand and in another sense counterintelligence failures and -- basically foreign spies for Russia China -- other states have really taken us to the cleaners over the years. Because we haven't done a good job in. What they called spy catching or in counterintelligence feel very difficult work to do but you know if you read the book Q you come away with one of two conclusions either our. Counterintelligence services or so incompetent they can't even catch spies when they walked in the door or worse there's some penetration at at a higher level in our government that is. Make sure we don't have good counterintelligence system and then as a way foreign supplies to steal our secrets.

Neither of those have had a very a part could be boat 61726660688774694322 if you have a question for bill -- bill what about Russia on the one hand they were -- today demanding Iran halt to enrichment of uranium. The new you know you've. Circle back two weeks and they were selling a boatload of air defense systems to Iran what are we to make of their role with regard to Iran

it's not a constructive role I mean basically they're working against the international community -- ukrainians are on track despite their public denials to build a nuclear device in -- that time ranges you know are anywhere from five years to two years. And it's not a good situation this guy I mean in Asia and the new guys there is. Is basically a nut case and what is somebody did likely wouldn't hesitate to use in nuclear weapons specifically against Israel -- on short notice. So you've got a situation where the Russians are first of all they supplied them with this sheer reactor which again was supposed to be war peaceful use of you know generating electrical power. Which the rains don't need -- got enough oil -- you know keep the lights on four. You know 10000 years so so you've got a problem there they disagree and the question is why and the reason is that the Russians are working against the United States there. After the lost -- status of the Soviet level power that they they want and to do that they're going against the United States they're hooking up with the Chinese. On the other hand and they're making things worse Armenian United Nations is trying to get the Iranians to comply with what they've agreed to. You know years ago which was they would get nuclear technology. And they could keep getting it as long as they were building weapons we'll -- building weapons and they don't want to change that's kind of the standoff right now.

And what would what do you think Putin's reaction would be to a preemptive attack taking out the nuclear facilities like Israel did. To -- Iraq of twentysomething years ago.

you know I don't know I don't think the Russian military today could intervene. Like they could during the Soviet period mean they've they've really the military has really declined in -- sense but they still have nuclear weapons -- you know conceivably they could they can make some threats whether they would go and and defend the Iranians is another question -- answer.

They'll build two years ago about eight years ago he -- a book called be trail. Which was about the Clinton administration in their cozying up to China and some of the illegal fundraising in the espionage went on back under Clinton remember reading the bookings as being appalled that all of the things have gone on. And yet I'm sitting here and am reading you know a lot of your recent work in your recent columns. It seems to me like -- maybe it wasn't the you know the liberal Clinton administration that is just par for the course because seems like once or twice a week UN detailing some bombshell. About China in either their military build up or their very successful espionage activities.

Well certainly I think the bush administration has definitely been tougher on are our so called friends abroad -- especially in the Chinese -- in the Clinton administration was kind of like in free fall they -- the Chinese were Jews you know paying money to the Democratic National Committee back in 96. Influenced the reelection and that the same time the US it basically let its guard down completely in the in the Chinese. Build up military buildup is accelerating so that's there's still a a big problem in government today where people don't understand the long term. Threats to US national security to big problem.

Well we were talking about that before you came on ability if you think about the you know the size of the US army in the capabilities that it has. Being you know knee deep in Iraq and Afghanistan if either one of these two countries China or Russia decides to do something provocative are his are really tied aren't -- in terms of how robust we can respond.

Well again because we need to develop better intelligence capability that's really you know. When somebody you and you hear public discussions today about options they're invariably comes up as well we're following diplomacy but we haven't ruled that military action. It's the middle area where the success can really be -- the middle area of being intelligence counterintelligence. Covert action and special operations military that's where we need to -- developing the capability so that you know we can develop a real opposition in Iran and overthrow the government there. Without having to send in the 82 airborne with a 101 I mean that's what we we need to develop and again it's it's not easy to do but it's certainly we can do it and and it's a better way to do things in dealing with some of these groups states the same for North Korea.

What about China with the the olympics coming up in Beijing you know -- going to be putting on a happy face but that really doesn't speak to all of their activities can you give us a -- give us a couple examples of some of their -- greatest hits as far as espionage goes and some of the technology they've been able walk away were sure

well I would like to point out four incidents that I just wrote about in the Washington times recently which was one of their submarines assailed within five miles of the USS kitty -- you know in surfaced undetected by the navy. This was a major -- you have you know 5000 sailors on that ship which were you know put in jeopardy and in the navy has tried to say that they weren't threatened this was clearly a provocative action by the Chinese showing that they could sink US carriers that they wanted to it's it's been a focus of their military development efforts. It's as far as intelligence gathering goes I think it's too big cases -- in the book one is the Katrina loans by -- which was extremely damaging not so much from the loss of secrets are safe but on the compromises to -- spying against China. That's really what the Chinese were able to do in that case and Katrina -- was Los Angeles businesswoman who the FBI recruited in 8485. And who the FBI thought was spying for them but in reality she was working secretly for the Chinese and compromising vast amounts of our intelligence -- so that we really don't know what the Chinese are doing in the -- in their military we don't have good guys in the years on what's going on there. Second thing is they've been stealing technology and that's in another recent case that the case of -- active time achievement was that defense contractor work for a company a subsidiary of a company called L three. And provided the Chinese with -- extremely sensitive. Military technology -- the aegis battle management system and also secrets about our our newest Virginia class submarine so you know we've taken tremendous hits from the Chinese and and it's coming at a time when the Chinese serve becoming more more provocative and and more more threat.

Well there's a lot to worry about and we have basically no one watching the shop at the UN at this point. Bill -- so want to thank you for joining us tonight to book his enemies and you can find is -- reporting in the Washington times they severe weather -- thank you great to talk to tonight. More coming up on these two lovely countries China Russia the UN John Bolton -- Boston's south station AM 680 WR KO.

This appears Boston's -- 60 WR -- Welcome back by virtue of Kevin Whalen -- radio filling in. While little shows Sunday nights from seven to ten itself -- Jackson we focus on the new media in the -- and bring the best thought leaders the best bloggers to your radio offering unique perspective on the issues of the day.

We're talking about Russia and China and everything is going on and our leader Louis rudderless ship of the United Nations 61726666 -- a phone number let's go to -- in Waltham welcome to the show --

that didn't I was my political science Serb people -- ration their Russian and should blow it's well -- Budget should start Serb discussions -- towards against us. Well these countries China Russia. Not -- that you really have -- to around. -- was -- parents -- compounds -- government weapons of countries that are our side. Okay you have to have a little little you have to have mushroomed Japan are surrounding countries so that would first -- to come to initial. You can't turn to -- people because it was intended to destroy Israel first welcome back Russia China correct. And on the one hand -- blue -- children and produce it doesn't know released to and so he's going to try to attract a permanent.

No he should doesn't know I don't know about the --

Let's -- pensions -- it's him against breast. China especially don't comment let's take our intelligence that was the stupidest thing to do was go to China to them that they wanted. But -- but I have a common bellows who else around I would move those countries -- wanted to do something occurred to attract a lot of countries were attacked like turkey will protect its -- and spoon. We have to do and tell them what's going to. The most problem. To defend both countries will consult Muslim defend themselves.

Well on that we can agree -- I don't know but the idea of giving out more nukes to more countries I don't know that's exactly the best idea that we need to go down that road I would rather have us keep the -- and use them if we need to god forbid let's hope not. Let's go to ray in -- welcome to the Todd fiber show ring.

I you know President Clinton gave away a lot of knowledge and you know you -- dead and now the Chinese and the Russians are involved an invasion on our country. And thanks to -- squeezed create and so Americans coming into our country illegal alien that you would call them no technology however an opinion question. To do what they're doing is squeezed the economy with respect for the fact that they're extremely. Label they -- intellectual knowledge. That you may have burned me however we can't work in the fields of that settlement that the little White House whether it's a small business way also whether it's very business like as well there's international and domestic. The problem here is is that it's implementation that Clinton has being playing with giving away is being given away by the Republican administration Astros. I'm so sad that they can do that because of the fact is that -- bush will face 'cause I don't know how many times and of course eight years to rent an annual pace in line there was. And tell us everything's all right when everything's not wrong when everything is all right were called -- I don't get it could you explain -- answer.

That's a big a -- of a big conundrum --

You -- as a conundrum of wrestlers might the only viable. And the holy Bible I believe it was a conundrum of essays it couldn't be fitted to a corner so well here.

Well we're the world heard those who weren't ring peso call you know -- mentioned the Clinton administration that is what turned me off of him being a member of the Democrat party back in 1993 way back. Bill Clinton's number one campaign contributor was the CEO of little ralcorp a guy named Bernard Schwartz. Biggest campaign contribute to Democrat party in the 92 election cycle. In the decision. As to who gets to launch satellites was always kept within the the Defense Department. Clinton wanted to move from the defense and State Department to the Commerce Department because his body Ron brown was -- the Commerce Department. And he had all the rules changed against the advice of the National Security Council -- joint chiefs CIA. All the defense apparatus in this country Clinton changed the rules to let who will ralcorp is number one campaign contributor launch satellites from China. The obvious national security implication there is in order to get a satellite up into space he got to put it on an Intercontinental ballistic missile. To get it into the atmosphere. Well what happened with Loral's first launched crash show shortly like basically read on the launch pad the Chinese government wouldn't let any Loral's scientists and engineers get to the wreckage. For several days by the time they got -- the thing was picked clean and lo and behold a couple of months later a couple of sorry a couple of years later listen -- that the technology to do over in IC BM to the United States. So neither party has a very good reckon I'm reading all of these things here from bill Gertz is outstanding reporting. About this most recent incidents with the IU SS kitty hawk near Okinawa Japan. With this guy's stealing on these B two bombers secrets it seems I was appalled when I read his book betrayal and all the things -- happening in the Clinton administration and builders say that it's gotten better since then. But it's certainly hasn't gotten where it needs to be in terms of our espionage and intelligence and counterintelligence activities. And the fact we have nobody watching this that the UN right now is as is this isn't real shame that a guy like John Bolton with a great record of accomplishment achievement a guy who is. Dignified and stood up for the US every step of the way the guy who was nothing like these said he would be and yet they still won't give him an up or down vote it's a total disgrace. And as far as our friend Amy from Seattle I'm looking at this list of new millennium development goals number three promote gender equality in empower women. Well who has done that more than George W bush around the world 20 million women in Afghanistan. And in Iraq now have education possibilities all -- a whole new world opened to them because of the bush administration's so if you want to reconsider what you had disabled -- but somehow it. When you think don't know who also is now 6172666060 -- a phone number I'm going to be here tomorrow night and filling in for -- for amber at once again again check us out on line a pundit reviewed dot com that's the blog. And the email keep the conversation going pundit review at Hotmail dot com coming up next in a few moments in some exciting Boston Celtics basketball you -- want to miss it. They -- listening to Boston's -- station and succeeding WR KO.

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