Richard Miniter On The Continuing Terrorist Search

All right joining us now on the now on the -- line is Richard minister he is the author of the new book mastermind the many faces of the 9/11 architect. Khalid Sheikh Mohamed and Richard thanks for being with us here about how we our show okay go ahead Richard thanks for a thanks for being -- -- I appreciate it. Those that would. I was taking your does he said that the fathers did it but it was open to looking didn't do two tests suggested they certainly did. And wait for that but I would like this -- reliable water boarded because bin Laden had been head. Incredible amounts of information that just don't exist anymore Lebanese -- locations -- -- yourself the United States and around the world. Arms caches someone supplies and -- and what government officials in Pakistan sort of labor elsewhere have been helpful to -- Qaeda and so on and so. What do you think he got his last up to -- briefly -- Well listen information emerging Asian and gain control of his network. That there you know there was no Internet. There was just certain computers and some drives. Brought run off of generators computers so the diesel generator in the in that. Concrete castles says. And that we get undressed to remove for various elements evocative black earlier. Put it into his computer sort of he had and then write messages back button and the thumb drive back -- -- in daily contact. Well that's is that he wasn't in contact. And I'm just really doesn't signal intelligence team. That's good lord had intercepting IndyCar also went on to -- any Internet so must that must not be in contact and it was so full function. Post pictures -- were released over the week in the war pretty pitiful -- thank. They're very yeah I mean frankly the joke pictures are better like yep this is one of the famous floating a notion of -- -- proposition picture of Osama. It's an efficient one. But the actual pictures are from -- prudent here and run run Obama it feels -- torn about releasing those pictures we've certainly seen gruesome pictures. In this country before and most recently on 9/11 with those people something that -- Right exactly yeah yeah. Which by the way we haven't seen much upsets than a humanoid like you know every anniversary I'd like to see those pictures just to be reminded of it does it you know the new people come along who haven't who'd -- all remember there would never sought in the first place. -- like the publicist for my book. Mastermind. She told me she slept around Oregon graduate doesn't do present forces she has real memory of nine elevenths and there's a lot of people. Yeah. I think one of them as Rosie O'Donnell only publishes from suburban new York and you mentioned someone from New York for saying something like that it's just it's mind I know she's you know politically correct that well that doesn't wants to take everybody's -- -- wakes up world bodyguards but -- this -- to say simply crazy like that I don't I don't get it even for a even for moan about it. Well it certainly one of the commanders. I'd get my who's personally responsible for -- -- And I feel good you know once a month to take these guys -- to get -- courthouse to review their legal document. And they would watch them on revenues into the the mastermind himself and then number of the others. We've -- amount of impact on video on their laptops over and over. And security good you have to sit behind them the guys from your widgets you gotta switch now I can't watch haven't watched the reruns for 56 times heroic and take it. And they know what they're doing and political figure. So don't watch it just the world does and supporter remember what the stakes are this is organizations who want to kill us. And broke -- again but -- -- father wrote a book. Ya -- one of the things are 12 one that you bring up because that'll be it's got nearly enough foul play is that you say in the book that. That the American flag that no longer flies at Guantanamo Bay exact correct. What can we correct -- don't -- removed before our ceremonies out of seventeen. Which are sprawled over a number of camps. In gitmo. Because they would have protested they it was a danger to the -- into the doctor's into the interrogators and other personnel there. I was an average of eight point lead attacks per day the average when guards are there personnel down there I ended any. And how many detainees are there. That's a great question I think the total number is is -- that is the number in didn't put that now we're down to thirty at the high point it was just under 700. 230 and they're in they're doing nine it packs a day. It's incredible isn't it as some of it is the what they call -- gitmo cocktails -- a mixture of every liquid waste -- man can create plus all the ways -- you've probably been slow down the offensive guards. They also will -- like pope's so let's take this brings at a waterfront with. Welcome immigrants concrete floors instead given to sort of hand. You know instructed the personal down there -- I've done they'll have injuries sports and their bodies were you know these guys attacked the some of them are required but I was so extremely violent. Do you think there's any chance so over shut it down. I don't have room to put these people -- their home countries mostly don't want them. For obvious reasons right. And Arab countries that will overtake them like China US and will defend America. The first time since -- seems to China we learned about on the. Only shot between -- and because. So that I always liked about the Chinese despite their predatory trade tactics you know -- system the slot to be said for -- further treatment of terrorist sites. Not trying to stay saying stay away from a man -- unit you're unlucky. And that they certainly you have to -- executive action in the case. So it's very hard to -- these decisions. But also -- go to Google continues to be valuable to us those interrogations. Even -- the waterboarding was boomers -- -- community dividend. It's who use weapons were reported. It is that provided the vital clues meaning of the career that led us to bin Laden there. Other clues who have come out of interrogations have read this stuff that's. Against the Brooklyn Bridge the Empire State Building that should go to -- Sears Tower. The library tower one example it's based in Seattle. Heathrow airport the world's fourth busiest in London. You know and articles with embassies overseas in Paris and -- a sort of a couple of -- US embassies is an important -- -- -- -- -- -- -- well and a Muslim -- But were stopped and looked a little rest and sometimes you know procedures involved men were pretty seriously. And not GSM was only one of three people who's ever been water -- there right. Three people. That we as -- we've ever heard the end of it heavily. We had them basically wrapped the towel around someone's face little sample water on the national permanent damage -- calling it torture is ridiculous for two reasons. One of the classical training definition of torture isn't permanent irreversible change in someone's well being. And that that waterboarding that -- doesn't do that doesn't mean mental or physical world starts. -- secondly you know wouldn't call -- -- -- -- its stated something park as China Burma North Korea a woman's hideous resume. And it takes so well both parties to criticize Physicians for Human Rights abuses so they're not doing Americans in favor by calling it torture. But they're also putting a lot of this democratic dissidents in the Third World by calling it torture I think these people who called torture of a -- to -- -- No widen that kiss him give up the name of -- here. Well he could not by accident whom they should come a long drawn to the guy's face it's so there are indeed it was -- -- says. Yes and doing business so he's not important these system dissuade he protested too much basically. And -- he gave up they have to remain subdued these stupidly well luckily for us. I don't know that confidence that they. And by giving up that name. We feel I was able to run it down and ultimately. Find that love. And how many how many years -- take after he has made this mistake. -- This mistake happened the timeline is different and everybody in the administration gives you different date. But that through four years later but I remember once someone's broken waterboarding him to become cooperative. This -- -- -- motherboard to -- that is enough to keep them talking. That is what they say in. Then what happens waterboarding you don't have people that waterboarding question if you don't know the answer to monitor their veracity. But afterwards then do begin to ask the question that that process the vehicles these recent. And didn't income from written questions you don't know the answer to -- not just accepting -- at face value you crossed Chicagoans -- that we can say. -- phone intercepts satellite imagery and so on belonging to punish them. You would deny them their favorite food. You don't of them was properly collected like two or whatever it's and so there's really in -- -- that there is -- -- -- -- -- -- kiss him way now Ali I'm look at his picture on the cover of the book he does look kind of like John -- she's got about three chancellor media and all these guys I think on the average they put on like thirty or forty council which is this -- way now do you know. Posted almost 200 pounds of big guys and but -- He's gotten them that the war is written setup -- that was -- -- because he thought it. It. Like Jew reporter in the world and he had. Why he missed the other from Kentucky fried chicken to. He's been through their nickname he really doesn't get. And local Islamic wanted to prove that he could be personally deadly it's not to be. Not just people believe it was a government pays. -- -- other people to data were to kill but he got to prove that he could kill themselves. So when in the pearl was kidnapped he brought him from his captor. Went to the guys. He brought it you know that there's a market that's unfortunately in Pakistan. And then he went to his house within the film crew into other guys and pearl was tied up. Not into the ground that put too little people are talking one on a global war on -- of the shoulders. And Eritrea since sprawled on top of the -- certain song with a knife and data and video. In Erik -- wanted to try him in Ormond had. Yes I mean imagine residents. Eric Holder a a native of New York City -- way. Amid another guy don't understand what what the -- what they what is that I think it. Well I think that's what neighborhood -- different. We're I think he would yet that it also here he wanted to pay your property taxes on your mother's house although -- did do that finally after the New York pros broke the story. We're talking Richard met that are he's the author of mastermind the many faces of the 9/11 architect Khalid sheik sheik Mohammed. And you know what will get some questions here just a moment but I didn't -- went in CA NT -- -- My family's living Greensboro I mean that's kind of weird that he went to a black colleges and -- It was weird I -- he -- you look at our colleges charm which is a traditional Baptist school in northern North Carolina and then he went to NCA and TV. All the moderate Jesse Jackson. And graduated with a degree in engineering and doctors professors and former classmates and the friends because down there. There's -- there's -- sizable Muslim community in Greensboro that's emerged over the last twelve years initially just to -- foreign students to transfer students. But you know -- -- -- now mosques everywhere and -- there's a sizable community. Most of those present patriotic Americans or at least that's what this says that. You know similar remembered isn't quite formally that women were discovered Tuesday. He was -- even NCAA can. I'd like to drive about a licensing often get in the car accidents and -- off. For the parked car with two women. Hey how's that different for most illegal aliens. This is this is the question. And they're ripping it apart go to these two women throughout the last thing was Christian based -- and people were injured so badly. I found a couple of -- close Christian Mohammed. -- Which appears when it started digging because surprised at how much this stuff just hadn't been reported about this that Justice Department about deputies. This is first assassination in America my home. -- On the bridge in Brooklyn Bridge right. -- -- -- -- -- Or excuse me I'm sorry I think it was something else from the shop the IBM the Brooklyn Bridge. Right and that was also excited about surely -- -- plot to blow up there are only improbable win. Of course you care about this was the mastermind behind the first World Trade Center bombing. His presidency has to fill the problem. So is he told them that you know that his his his tip you're. You know one intended as a was led to what the death of Osama bin Laden. You know I tried really hard to answer that question. That the people who -- directly -- -- -- -- that it's probably not they did not go to Internet so access and CBS radio. I don't wanna keep them in the dark because you know what they want from the clam up and they wanted to do with a provision to receive. But I'm not exactly something down there underneath this particular the movie -- every other night. Right you put on weight girl fat. And I request to ascend -- Deborah -- -- Guantanamo. He -- that she goes without directly. It's double meals with -- Even though it's batters he has. Well I think that replica. You know won't be easy -- the well -- -- this summer -- in captivity and then he gets the medical care it's the creation. Movies -- mobile -- book he wants to read. You know it's that the publication -- effective is exposed to the mastermind. I don't know the question and let's. Certainly suggested we get a library. 18774694322. Witnesses Richard minister he's the author of the New York Times best sellers are losing bin Laden shadow wars new book is called mastermind -- can order from our website now we cart dot com. And it's about Khalid Sheikh Mohamed in a perfect timing for your book Richard and congratulations on. Eric you're next with Howie Carr and Richard men that are go ahead Eric. Hey how -- it all right thank you. I was such a short comment on something Richard mentioned earlier. Torture in the war. But the United Nations. It's against her article one. One. I'm portrait any act by your inner -- what -- -- and essentially -- Such purposes as. Person in -- were questioned and so on. And meet your waterboarding so into the point that they believe that they are they could potentially die. -- you think that that it sort of mental. Anguish which which of which of course is illegal under the nation in -- Well first of all that definition of torture replaces the earlier definition which asserted you have a permanent irreversible. On -- well being that second well well I think -- stress not torture. And it can call anything that creates discomfort torture if you -- -- the word torture. They move the moral authority. To criticize people who really do torture. Such as people who -- prisoners people who amputees healthy lives extract teeth with no anesthesia. And so on. Look you know this stress of being a police station to to be asked hard questions detective. You know it takes -- to get a certain amount of information. You wanna create -- opinion because people can't think in answer your question in that case. And so you know but you do to create a certain amount of stress. This -- the fact there's a trade off and got a -- about this between. You mean treatment and life saving information and it spectrum and somewhere along that spectrum you have to draw a line. And decide where the balances but to pretend. That you can simply treat people as the equivalent of staying in the first well. And that would create been stressful moments for them you'll never get the most information. And let's spend a moment to stress you're exposing millions of innocent Americans. To death or or mean. So that's the tradeoff so we're gonna draw the line you've got to -- -- -- somewhere. To drive along all of the extreme and to never give these guys who stressed movement you'd rather other innocent people suffer. There's no choice between the two. You have to choose you know somewhere between those two and point. The weighty issues. Thanks for the caller 18774694322. -- -- -- bring him to Guantanamo in the in the first place -- -- he was at -- spent more than three years in -- -- secret prisons around the world. And sure this more than the one you mentioned in Bangkok. Amman and now Warsaw I mean. What what are they just keep them there and I'm not have to go through this this this ACLU I mean this is a torture in its own way you know trying to try to make these guys -- -- human beings. It's similar portable purpose -- eight point five million dollars. Transplants to it would be headed by Janet Reno said the direct mail letters by the way -- Point five million in its letter signed by Janet Reno the democratic. Attorney general in elected official from Florida the state of Florida. Right exactly and you know it's that the defense can get them another 9/11 when insiders incredible. But you know there is a lot of movement is because of political pressure you have to change his broken congress some of the Republicans. And the Supreme Court that basically forced President Bush. Two movies -- activities out of the CIA's prison system overseas and into Guantanamo. And we increased created different legal environment where you know you're -- Moran doesn't them. In all but name and giving them you know all these legal protections it becomes much harder to get information. -- -- 18774694322. -- 83 people gave that eight point five million to you know. Thousands. And. Maybe news even though. Well. Is astonishing reported mastermind is the a member of law firms such as -- in New York that. You know spent their pro Bono projects certain high powered attorneys to Guantanamo to dispense these to. That it is using the pro Bono you know budget is usually spent to help you know. Right some guy in the Bronx whose who may or may not be guilty of -- carjacking. Slowed or autumn or mother you know desperate to get -- support yeah and you know -- or or you know an immigrant who's about to be deported you know somebody who. You know the average American would tell you I'd like to see that -- help. Do Mahmud -- pro Bono budget was spent by major law firms. To fight the US government in the war on terror really. -- that makes sense and if you look at some of these major firms that contributed to that pro Bono budgets to defend these guys. Quiet but very corporation that -- plume on 9/11. It and is if these law firms were not lost their own employees of they have had the misfortune to be in the World Trade Center are on that day. Exactly right. So I mean veto it and it's an upside down reversals some of these critics is just not being realistic or or both minded. And look no one's saying you should treat these -- prisoners terribly. And we do a certain degree -- human treatment that is that is necessary. Give them access to medical care. Food. Shelter and so on and so don't want to this because there are they should be you know they should be punished them and taking an interest for the way all that said you know there's also an interest that they forget them the public interest. In -- -- life -- information about future plots we've looked at all the plots that have been revealed and it could lead to a rest. And seizures of bomb materials just coming out of -- them and then with the other detained similar formations and extracted. 18774694322. Greg your next with how we earned Richard minister author of mastermind go ahead -- Bet that Janet Reno that you just brought up about the similar burned out intact as well kick and it. It doesn't let up on. My question is bit com. You know it if Obama didn't bet and I -- -- -- What -- arms or -- or is -- vote -- -- -- is that. Right do you have some doubt because -- like -- and eastern European prison being tortured right now to do the harshest. Heart is what he could take it I guess my question is how could you tropic you'd see okay. People who world where our current orders. Continue to prosecute them out the president did that create an application. Ought to kill the guy if you -- there. How could you have that agent that would make it except. What your car is really good point and the look look at -- at this CIA interrogation process a little more detail to show you how ridiculous that is. There's a lot of birdies not the first thing they do that he'd be right after these things are never subjected to course appears -- -- at all. There's the -- it's it's called aftershock. The the shop couldn't couldn't US custody in the talks that apple. I there was a twelve step process and at any point in that twelve step process. Decided to continue to start talking they stop equation immediately. And moving into corporation. I took over there there's only three people including Jerusalem water boarded and everyone else gave up -- -- -- now look look what those courses steps are right. Stepped under fire is called the bone flap. Now this slow I have to get written permission from its legal counsel 24 hours in advance they're only allowed to slap one is about it. Yeah but they wanted this bar at the but legal counsel to remember that's. Well over the Justice Department that's right so yeah we're gonna have to Jones for a while but the Goldfrapp. They're not this will suspend -- -- there isn't 300 page instruction manual. That the CIA had to borrow by the way you have to spread your fingers according to a certain diagram. And then slapped -- run in the valley. I'm not step number -- I looked at numbers seven -- is going to be picking his team to a room and is a false wall and pushing against the wall. And the wall moved back -- which is in me throughout -- and would imagine he's been substantially in this this course of this exercise exactly. And you know Poland and I gadget right. And that's that's what they were prosecuted because sports book at. In this and these are the same guys they've they've been prosecuted there are the it's by Eric holder's Justice Department who said it was okay. To go women kill Osama bin Laden and a foreign country. Right and look look at what other cases he decided not to prosecute OK we want to sort of got the black Panthers can. Philadelphia correct. But look at look at the cases of just this last week they decided not to prosecute Ben Thomas and and that is that who's to understand what is the guy who might. Classified information to the most times about the use dropping program that we were general alert that the program goes -- on overseas. Right look -- -- people who called known terrorists what you've got the home phone number. Donna bin Laden the -- Mohammed. We shouldn't listen to that call went without then listen to call you need this program to the New York Times you have times won the Pulitzer. And all of those blown hundreds of phones because you have the release that -- being watched. By intelligence services sudden shut. The New York Times -- a lot of business fast enough for me -- This guy this guy. Broke the law. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- So we decided just this past week not to prosecute the guys in the that is very strong case. Did you stick around Richard it. Richard do you come back after this break. OK hold hold on we gonna take a break we'll take some more calls I promise in the next next segment 1877. 46943221. Now we are. 1877469432. -- -- -- one more segment is Richard monitor Houston -- new book it's called mastermind the many faces of the 9/11 architect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed provided the information unwittingly apparently that led to the death. Last week of Osama bin Laden. And they could order the book Greta from our website how we -- dot com how we cart dot -- Richard I got a couple of by a lot of text messages actually this kiss him even know that Obama is that Osama is that. I know I know IKEA yeah Idaho it's one of those things. Apparently he doesn't know that I as a puppet of the -- and yet the question but apparently doesn't based on the fact that -- don't. While radio or TV at Guantanamo for the prisoners as that is in the ninth and. And someone says you know you but but yet you know the big guys who was shot Osama bin Laden get our heroes as well -- they should be our. Yet this guy punches at the punches somebody -- another seal punches -- terrorists and he's he's up for trial. Yeah I think he was acquitted. Which I think Kate yeah. And the other thing the media treats a lot of our armed men in uniform. And as criminals but if you look at the results of the trial there is underrated. The reason in the case of the -- the value on the four bodies. From the original rock and burn them. You know those Marines refused to of those servers -- refused to go before an admiral's mast and the or Marshall. And when they got the court martial they were all indicated. And us someone mountain -- someone else wants that now with four well I'll -- that the market where it's it's a cutesy right now we'll get to what clicks and call Sean you're next with how we cargo and Richard minutes or go ahead John. I Ali Richard -- could be on the show he. Richard congratulations on your New York Times best seller. Qualification prayer itself a very straightforward question. -- Rosie O'Donnell's whole. Indicated that 95% of people feel like I'm on the lot and god is god is huge. But. Could you would step very particular that the benefit. That could have been achieved had Osama bin -- Not fired college -- rifle letter -- And now we image capture him and used. Interrogation techniques. Including waterboarding and what kind of beneficial information not would've been now acquired. -- You know Middle Eastern now radical reform that day. You know martyrdom and and torturing. And you know an ideologue and someone with a representative of radical radical. Yet but let me -- liquid crystal ball there's thing is that but on the lot new as head of the terror network that were not written down that -- known only to him. He understands the finances the enormous financial mechanism -- -- of global spectacle global terror group. Are ready to cut off from the Stanley money in 1994. And his one million dollar year -- was. Imagine the lawyers all the would be lining up to defend them -- -- would be pot would it be possible to Warner -- a portable what they've had to keep the -- operations secret and -- -- you. How we -- have the people -- secret but the other problem with telling the world that we just kill bin Laden. Is that all the all operate well we could swoop down and surprised feel kind of leadership we don't know their top and debt. They don't know if it it was a global news announcement. Hours after you didn't they waited a few weeks or months they would have been some real benefits. There there are these conflicting reports about whether was a capture. Operation or kill operation where there was capture or kill what what do you think it was. You know I don't know I think this fuels some may have given -- -- and opted to kill him. And the reason wanted to say that has both the Obama administration officials and the Bush Administration officials talked to. Involved -- counterterrorism Homeland Security. All say that they hoped he was captured and was killed capture. -- why if that's what you say is true. And they said that even years ago before -- was for Obama was elected the bush -- of the things that and that because of the politics. They simply didn't want that ACLU lawyers they didn't want to worldwide education. They just wanted to about a picture but of course from a pure intelligence point of view if you could find out about this financial sources locations. We Purcell. You know what off depending. What government officials and foreign government Pakistan Saudi Arabia well elsewhere. Helping them that information would be in -- people mean absolutely priceless -- turning the war there will never get that now because of our politics. Politics used to stop the water's -- we used to fight like crazy. About the domestic affairs whenever our soldiers in the field. With and understand -- read and that's gone but you guys in the Vietnam era and not coming back that's a real loss of these is much much harder for us but by an overseas. The from the the tax I was looking for the guy the guy wanted to know city that he couldn't find anything on -- China shooting get my whole lot of people coming back we're -- for that. I I thought years ago and then on news service which is that the Chinese statement. Wire service available in both English and Chinese. And -- and HUA. Okay thanks. Mike -- -- with how we Karr and Richard minute or author of mastermind. The many faces of the 9/11 architect Khalid Sheikh Mohamed go ahead Mike. I already answered that Michael. Stock and you registered. I thought you know thank you on the pat myself -- airports back then it makes my blood boil Uygur people that are trying. Opting out whether it was torture. Whether waterboarding is torture isn't what about all of permanent damage psychological damage. That happened to that the victim's family the parents but why. Brothers sisters. There and never see their people yet. I and it that's all worked as waterboarding them there -- not want their ears lopped off our hands locked off. I'd say more power tool that works do it I understand why are so against this is so. Political correctness Mike into words what would you say Richard. Well I practically -- powered iMac but also I bet you it. You know we know it works because it's led to stop off around the world if they innocent lives and -- led to a restaurant in an important captures. So in the but the benefits are there and they seem to act as if there's no benefit -- all off. And that frankly remember that you know it's been almost ten years now since -- of an attack a lot of the parents who lost. Loved ones on nine elevenths are dying before they see justice. Thanks for the call Mike John you're next with Howie -- and Richard minute or author of mastermind go ahead John. Hello Howard Garrett. I I was reading and he did two tours tours in Iraq. And -- out of this trading it was waterboarding is amongst worse things. -- The out of the train in on. And yet we able well but I will say it all these people against waterboarding. It was -- loved ones lives would take it he totally. -- -- all the. Aren't they added another techs are racist this question to a don't don't be a US military personnel under -- a lot worse training that waterboarding. That's -- that you have -- -- -- it back and in fact in your school to escape and evasion school for most military. You're getting at what reporter you're gonna get put into a very small box bill that repeat some of the things that north Vietnamese did captives. Yet there's this deep divisions school or schools so long. Are designed to put you through the pain of this process that you can survive it if he's your particular captive by the enemy. But let's also remember you know a lot of people say -- we should water portable is the same or worst or guys. Cut our guys have thought I mean they stayed home and start in the they beat them they're already not following. Right or an architecture of Ian pearl in your book when he's a captive I mean he knows what's gonna happen to a -- it's horrifying photo. It is it is and you know there in mind that video was released. -- -- They were very proud of ecology moment wanted to released -- show how tough he personally to be he killed -- the pro mostly for you go after a political purpose. And that they they have notion about releasing those videos and they have notion about objecting ecology common objective during the Portland -- get well. To the way the court cartoonist from his notes it was too big sit and therefore violated his human -- I'll buy and he said that without any -- you -- I really don't want to and of themselves and and and another for. Richard Richard -- we got -- break but that we really appreciate -- being with us the title of your book is mastermind -- -- copy in my book tomorrow. -- excellent Richard Richard -- 18774694322. On our car.