Children aren't learning history

And you know the a lot of she's gone elegy is -- around sold Jimmy guests would back to use sorry for the count of bodies on again off again -- guy who can maintain not. The concentration in the focus the issue of history again excised out of what would have been a new requirement and -- cast. Be in in in the the the reason why the rationale given was budgetary pressure. Op Ed in the -- herald a few days ago a retired history teacher says huge mistake I know you've said -- Todd and I've said it's in this kind of an echo chamber and yet. What -- what do you hope and pray for what realistically can be done in this budget season.

Four of personal thanks Jeremy on the air and thanks for hosting the for first gubernatorial debate we're in which. At least Turkey hill and baker talked about. Restoring. US history and cast which proper position and I thought thought that debate was terrific I still think he was one of the best gubernatorial debates and I've heard since the Silber weld debates.

Oh thank you we appreciate your coming into the it was a great to hear you say that. Anyways so there's no regard as just teasing -- like I'm not. Option it was just ignore you which he's really well runner up so the the we were schedule to have developed by now. The implementation of an -- for history as a result of them not being one. Separate from the fact that it has an enhanced histories have been any unintended consequence. We yeah I mean really -- so.

The class of 2000 art 2012. Was supposed to be the first class is going to be tested have US history and cast as a high stakes test. 2009. A commissioner of education Deval Patrick's hand -- of decided to cancel it they said that it was the 2.4 million dollars that it was prohibitive costs for them and it's. And a -- in nine billion dollars that we spend every year. But I'm education. Education at that both in the stated -- Google Talk about the heavy investment in education. -- it's kind of perplexing I mean he's he's ever obviously Iran rhetorically gifted but it doesn't and we square thank with a lot of policies and so. You know me yesterday was an important day program and he was inaugurated and and we've in this last week we have new congress we have -- state legislators but. The question is would endorse students. Have the basic knowledge in vocabulary of democracy didn't know what rights and duties -- and you know what. Constitutional as and they -- in inauguration is today note of the framers you know linked in World War I where that is that's a great point --

The short answer to those questions is -- no for the most but they they do not there's been and an abysmal performance by. American students and that would include in this -- it's useful -- us. -- American schools about just kind of a general what what what Todd and I would have been who would have been -- and nowadays it's with a civics right civics education pretty basic. Yeah I've I think most of us actually found a pretty interesting as well. And absolutely essential to an understanding of the role and responsibility as a citizen and a republic.

Right now etc. and I have I have the good fortune of being there and then having been a Massachusetts judge for this national contest and civics education. And of course Massachusetts is the highest performing state in the union and we are internationally competitive already in math and science. But but the teens from Massachusetts don't do well on the national contests. In civics and knowledge of -- history in California Alabama Virginia Indiana these other states. You really well and it's because they have a really robust US history civics program that starts in the elementary grades. They work it right after high school many -- have a graduation requirement. And although we have a general law that says specifically that we're supposed to be teaching the founding documents in the Federalist papers and and all that the reality is is is just not getting done it's not happening it can't find --

Not only are they being negligent in the Patrick administration that they are engage in criminal. Negligence. In terms of education well there's still ignoring the law that's a -- Is it.

Aren't on the outlook and raise suspicions in your mind but you know they -- 2.4 million dollars. Problem. And there's no question the very serious budgetary issues. This might be an attempt. The by the governor and his advise assist sidestep. But I -- characterizes controversies around history how we teach it. -- the issues intensely political issue American Indians Christopher Columbus. There's a lot of controversy around it and a lot of people just think red white blue it's always been America and America's right and and gloss over some of them. See your asides about history is that. I think it -- definitely networking I think that's it there's definitely a feature of that -- development of the US history stands in Massachusetts was really controversy controversial there's a lot of these issues about political correctness that. But the reality is that our standards are our history standards have been recognized by people the national level of people across the country as the best. But they are very traditional duties to George Washington civil war that's why vast right all the unions textbook that Tom and I used. And you're also happily making faces I'm not I call on our conversation earlier in a favorable way the reference that constitution the declaration of independence the Gettysburg address. Teddy Roosevelt is that you learn that stuff it knew that stuff that the iPod they want us to know that anymore. They really don't.

Sectors they'd say yeah professor at UMass Dartmouth juror who think these nameless. -- is and here on he's been a particular advocates for this kind of less traditional and more politically correct version of history. And we can't recognize that George Washington was agreed and toppled the British empire and you know put the country on a trajectory towards self government the it's you know he was the sleeve it was a slave. And it'll lab which is really ashamed and I think but I do think that part of the agenda to use to replace the US history. Standards with. 21 century skills global awareness cross cultural competence. -- service learning some kids would actually. Spent since I pumped gas in your windows it's wreaking parks in picking up garbage from so rather than as academic as a substitute. -- again I'll call it civics -- it's been a big part of with the governor's talked about in terms of grassroots governing. And it's even in the last month or so on the secretary of education Paul rebel was the keynote speaker at this. Advance. On what they call place learning so it's basically sending kids and -- trips rather than them learning the fundamentals of democracy and what it means. What passes and any specific kinds of field -- you know I think you know from the point of view a lot of people that are the advocates have service learning -- learning. Is long as the kids are in the classroom and they're out teachers are being held accountable for a student achievement there happy so it could be any. Does that cultural key.

Let's make sure where they were aware of the absolute ineptitude. Corruption. Systemic failure and everything in a non --

We'll talk more about it Jamie gases here from the tiny heiress to there a think tank the focus is a great deal and education. You were talking about it's an interest in contrast Deval Patrick speech yesterday. About education in the investment he's made in it and the fact that they haven't invested in education how they're dismantling history Tom and Todd WRKO.

And we declared. Independents. Eighteen things haven't seen it. Eighty. And then what did part of your -- British are coming. -- let it exciting that's occurred there during the fighting a -- 3000 and it doesn't this. Part of Google. Were killed during the Cold War battles. Like 700 senator so how many people died and didn't -- battles. Haven't colluded. Kaplan and it hasn't been an 8002. Million.

get that little Jay Leno the man of Tuesday if city data show us an idea I mean we laugh about it and allow for -- watching. But in the -- you step back in horrify. -- and you see these surveys of seniors graduated from the ITV's the Princeton stop -- of the world and they do not have a clue about that Todd mastered in hype it's.

Life never master anything -- a lot. -- I want to be accurate -- K well but keep in mind the part you're leaving out is that when they are challenged in terms of 21 century skills these kids have all that hot topic yet they don't always have to do is figure out what a 21 century illness it's texting while you drive that's territory for such -- so I don't have that whenever you have asked -- you do that might close. So any guesses here from the pioneer institute a think tank that focuses a great deal and education. Here in Massachusetts. And you guys are conservative on education stuff you you think kids should actually learn something in school which takes you I guess reactionary would be accurate weren't. No I made it its interest -- that we when we interact with.

You know Indian or you know southern states -- we talked about it's you know. School choice accountability academic just basic basic things how -- gonna fix educations in the fits adjusting for me is it my grandmother and my mother were both. Involving education for their whole careers a lot of a lot of the topics that you talked about in the news in the US history this is just boilerplate. For generations I mean this is why public education was this.

Apple started to get dismantled though because -- like Tom says we all grew up with this and we saw the creep I think for me -- symbolic change happened when. One day I went to elementary school they weren't teaching history class anymore they were teaching social studies. And I smelled a rat even that I had no context for but I thought that was a very odd thing that history become social studies we I think what.

Happened is that a lot of the schools of education I think some of it is driven by the teachers' unions on the special interest -- an education. They have a real hostility to academics it's strange to say that but they do Dave Dave want. This sort of self sixteen soft skills. Less measurable kind of pro -- if you if you work.

Give them the benefit of the doubt what would a rational argument the for teaching something benign rather than something concrete why do you go for the amorphous what's the floor it's easier. It's easier I think that it immunity it's and then there's certain there's no way to hold them accountable so the kid me if you're telling us that malicious unique perspective. But what's it there there has to be somebody who actually believes it's a good idea. I don't it's it is it's I don't know but sometimes it's kind of hard to wrap your brain -- wide they would think it but they they do and I think it's it's almost a kind of a kind of religious belief they. Even though the deed and the facts and the evidence all point that if to your -- thing yeah it's almost any it's a it is almost like is --

It is is there ready to sense any tide of change that's running union while -- while characterizes your direction the pioneer direction. -- listen to some commercials for example and try to get Paul told Iran from the teachers association Everett commercials when he's talking the good directly to parents about homework. This is what we ask you to do this is what we expect we want to make sure your child succeeds -- south. I realize as a political dimension to this but this is a nice simple but important lesson. Other things he's talked about may be merit pay based upon how to it's how students perform and that's a measurement of the teacher says he seemed to be. -- usual notions coming from the head of the teachers here.

Right I think he is I think he definitely should be applauded for this whole -- idea of trying to link teacher evaluations to student data that's a clue who you're talking about Paul holes than a little easier but that's coming from the White -- hasn't -- visited a lot of is being pushed -- the Obama administration and I think -- in -- agreed with them on the national standards which we think is tragic for the state by. Offer a lot of other states it does make sense and and the Obama folks have been pretty good on our charter cap lifting in making these linkages between teacher evaluations to student data. But the guy who is actually bit union -- it was the best on standards was Al Shanker he was. Preeminent a gift he. Leader in the sixties to the ninety's really and he's was always great and high academic standards. You know US history in education for democracy he was he was tremendous on it but this. This battle between academic content and sort of skills has been present over the last 2530 years and and it's also in order in his state it's in -- tends to be a little more left leaning like Massachusetts there's always this dimension of the political correctness gets in there too it's. I mean I'm Deval Patrick appointed. -- Kaplan is a school former school committee member in Brookline. And she was educating she was for educating the whole Childs an avowed opponent to them -- you know exactly the probably the and -- also referred to educate the -- one note on and cast that's pretty much all she ever really talks about but it's this idea of educating.

Whole child that's another thing tries to witness this whole child's stuffed me like Heidi educate the big toe. Can she give us specifics on that. Opt opt out. It's gonna be in collaboration with a little tell. I can collaborate what are they talking about well I think that's one of things it's really her public education is is that -- just in this real movement -- two dead language it's just jargon it doesn't mean any toothbrush is really credited as having about Morgan at a school for my son -- daughter. And I'll I'll concede I've gotta buy his Sierra of them familiar with the Latin school. Outlook Everett got about look at follow. Indian adult child emerges like some off from the could cool as himself I it was a ridiculous it is to educate my son -- daughter and I'll help by the way I -- the game -- as a parent.

Right now and I think the thing has been remarkable and historic about the success of Massachusetts is enjoying the last 1015 years under a reform is is that folks like you in Tom Birmingham and mark Roosevelt weld and all these. Other leaders on Beacon Hill. Really held firm bond -- and high standards in -- all these things that are on pot it's kind of hard to believe that happened in retrospect it is still have them can you really won't -- that happen in the first it was really kind of a golden moment and I think that we you know a lot of what the governor has done is sort of aligned himself with the folks that are trying to. Return -- back to the glory days before -- reform when. It was just kind of flying by the seat that this has really more money into it this is.

The mastery of Deval Patrick that he can create the illusion for people. Of being a solid guy and education while behind the scenes dismantling and people never seemed to be able to connect things. So you referenced this a national standards thing turning over. The Massachusetts standards on education over the federal government which is. Doesn't even have a program yet there were turning it over to they're gonna make it up as we go and what that means is would -- the control is being shifted into the hands of people. Who can engage in this kind of a free that you're talking about creating this phony language and all this stupid talk about education said the same do you know the declaration of independence.

No that's right and that the truth of it is sit in in America we don't really have a national system of education we have a collection of state systems. The states and localities pace for 90%. Of K12 education so that the role of the federal government and education is really miniscule. And I think we'll always be that way to a certain extent and its. We're not cannot send us socialists have there or that no one there that I mean the national standards is about. The federal government taking over because then they can pay off the unions more -- it right and -- even and that they've worked through DC trade organizations the chief council of chief state school officers the gates foundation. The governors association -- push these things through. Outside of apparatus of government so their less accountable so you can't you can't it's not easy to. Hold the governors association accountable because it's a private organization and don't.

Do what they purport to do want to do it in and around education and again that's kind of the soft fuzzy. Rosie way of approaching the world.

You know I think that there -- in you know in all honesty they have tried for ten years or so whenever I mean obviously enormous amount of money for round two. A lot of what they've worked on has it hasn't worked in the reason -- they've relied on a lot of institutional players around education like the chief state school officers or. Or others you mean -- realize that fixes in on -- IIIR fiber to the experts and experts and you know and that kind of lead them you know either -- but I think he's well intended and you know he's trying to make a contribution to -- in -- and that's. It's a good thing and there's some things that he worked if.

Wolf lol imagine that he's in his learning curve Tennessee has more experience as a philanthropist Bill Gates look at batter at a and he'll start doing the right thing and education.

Yeah hopefully but you know I again I think it is instructive I mean on this whole idea of educating for democracy that they'd be basically the national standards were pushed through. You know through. The governors and the commissioners of education in the bill legislature the state legislature was totally bypass so there's some question about whether it's even legal. Really put you -- gets back to. You know if kids don't understand the fundamentals of the separation of powers federalism these kind of basic vocabulary of democracy. People are familiar with it then then it's a lot easier to to kind of put things in the back to. There's checks and balances was absolutely. Grass to buy every eighth grade I think in Massachusetts for years and years and he is I don't have any I don't think any of them have a clue what charts about instances today. I think there's probably sort of pockets of that but I think generally it's not being taught in any kind of Durham away its interest in over. Vacation pirate this biography of theater Roosevelt in this this in 1919. A couple of years after he died at school boy from. From Long Island described him -- a fifth pillar of good intentions but you know no one. Represented this idea of -- robust. Kind of citizens. As strenuous. You know advocate of democracy and the -- about an artist who has yet you know I don't know how many school children today could dispute could describe why he was with a -- good intentions.

Our Jamie gas pioneers to give people website so he can read more about where you guys do pioneer institute dot org. Pretty simple things as yeah as -- thanks so much of the weekend stay tuned for more time outside WRKO.