All About Romney Care

In this country with a guy who created it and yes.

I thought that I.

That's right. -- president -- well we got up we got every right where we wanna block that -- that probably oxygen out of the -- Tim Murphy is I guess here in the studio and we Ab broadcast by the way from the new balanced world headquarters -- to Murphy was the director of policy -- got former governor Mitt Romney for it -- the first two years of the Romney administration and then he became the secretary of I'll call -- health and human services but the secretary genial call it. I'm not allowed to -- things services are just human services tells you -- it is say okay it is HHS OK so. That's rock out. Let a guy whether anybody else well nothing nothing nothing. -- turn to take ownership of that which is -- Apollo whatever the hell I want secretary of HHS in in that it knows capacities. He was Mitt Romney's kind of write him guy. On the a Massachusetts Health Care law the universal. Access so we have a point man who negotiated this with the other power's that being fitted the current health care plan here is that -- jobless yeah absolutely I worked with the legislature were with the federal officials secretary Leavitt secretary Thompson and we were very closely with senator Kennedy's office. The BellSouth -- a lot he had because this has become the template Tim for the Obama plan now Washington lots of controversy you and I've been talking about it. True what did Tom just said we hear that repeated often but I wonder if that's as a cover story may get -- legitimate what's going on Washington yeah I mean I.

Think that there is easily summary -- shall we talk about reforming health care in this country and so I think if there's certain aspects of the federal plan that take. Aspects of what we did here in Massachusetts. But with that being said is I've kind of looked at that legislation it's. Markedly different timing -- things that they're asking is an example employers to do and health care bill that the president's put forth versus what we did here in Massachusetts. That's night and day I mean the federal government is truly kind of Guinea and and dictating to employers and a very specific way. And which outlined ways in which they have to offer what stands out to the most well I think that there are significant penalties associated with employers who even offer health insurance. -- employees. And if they don't offer the -- kind of that era for the right kind of their employees don't go and take the insurance and then their employee goes and uses a federal program. The federal government essentially it's essentially is gonna build them back. Until now so there's. It's it's basically requirement now of the employers a 100% cover yet is it's a real kind of what I would say kind of hardline what they call pay -- play you either pay for your employees are. I'm I'm sorry you -- you play with your yards for health insurance you pay the government. In a Massachusetts and I think this is a lot of things that get lost here because. There is this concept of the Massachusetts plan was a shared responsibility in government did something employers at something and individuals as something by I think that we were very. Astute. In terms of saying what is the proper role for an employer and I think that we made that. A much more kind of marginal aspect of what the Massachusetts law was I think in recognition that. You know the system isn't going to be solved by putting you know taxing employers and and putting that on the aircraft and he had Massachusetts employers -- in the -- they have to meet some guidelines that have been established by the -- the authority -- put in place to implement -- that's right well I mean everybody has to arm comply with what -- said and -- this concept of minimum credible coverage we put it. In Massachusetts for the first time in and in this country's history. Our requirement for individuals to have health insurance. As part of that when you today and define what it was that kind of minimum. Coverage that you needed to have to say yes indeed check the box I have health insurance so whether you're an employer or an individual you have to comply with that. I would say that's an interesting topic because. I'm I would argue that was in my mind kind of post passage of the bill on April 2006. I think one of the mistakes were made and a man in Massachusetts yeah I think that the act minimum credible coverage that the connector in the board said. Is too high I think that they're too rich too rich to -- plan I mean in terms of the mandate senate and terms of the requirements of what what insurance. What church you have to have to comply with the requirement arm of the law I think it's too high so would go B audio what yes and if I hear correctly -- it would go beyond the mandates Todd and I talked a lot about the -- forty somethin' legislative candidates you must have the in vitro you must have Vista must have that. But the connector when even. It beyond the outdoor stadium ended dating the obviously the mandates get caught caught up in what this at a minimum credible coverage. Is but then there's things about we have kind of what's BM. How much -- out of pocket for. Ambient it was a whole discussion earlier days do you have to have of pharmaceutical drugs covered to be considered minimum credible coverage and up. You know I think from my perspective and from governor Romney's perspective when. We were looking at doing the reform bill and saying what we know what of the ways in which we can get everybody to have access to coverage and make sure that we don't have a system which. We have financial dislocation to -- meaning people showing up uninsured an emergency rooms getting services and then how we go and pay for that. So we said well what we looked at where the money was being spent within the system we said well there's a way in which we can take existing money within the system. Re direct -- to get people to get health insurance. One of the things that we kind of came down to is to say -- you do need some type of mandate to say people should have and is an important point. Health insurance. Not prepaid health benefit. Health insurance meaning that if something were to go wrong with you. And then you had a financial obligation that would be too difficult to pay you ended up unfortunately getting cancer or something and it was a 100000 dollar bill waiting for you. Well as very few of us who can come up with a 100000 dollars go pay the hospital for those services. You need some type of insurer sure he's doing your house -- your car to pay for those things. The point here being is I think when you set a minimum credible -- can you tell people that the government is going to mandate -- you buy something. You to started a very -- base what are you looking to protect and I think in our mind it was we wanna protect against those unintended as large car had a strong must look at what we call catastrophic news.

Show catastrophic the easy part isn't the real problem that this is benefit package should not an insurance plan that because of all these. That all these mandates of things being covered in. In vitro for example which really is said that that should be a personal matter that's on -- health care matter that they everybody should have to share in the cost him an individual having a problem with their biology. That's a totally different thing from being -- wouldn't it be much easier to solve the health care crisis quote unquote if there is one. My life having a minimal plug basic stripped down plans that provide insurance for crisis.

I absolutely agree with you Todd I mean if you if the government is going to tell you you have to buy some thing. I think is a policymakers. You have to go with the mindset to say what is the least restrictive requirement that I'm going to put onto the population. And in my mind what we're saying is we just want to make sure that if you have something unexpected happened to you in a large bill appears. If you don't have the financial worth -- not a millionaire. How -- and of them pay for you know you should have that responsibility. And I think in a lot of ways that's kind of gotten lost in the conversation because if you were to talking to governor Romney -- to folks that helped him pulled up playing together. This was the important aspect for us which is to say there is a level of personal responsibility that needs to go into when you access to health. Care. Armed services particularly if you end up with large cost. Personally. If on a day to day basis if I don't know why the government should tell me why I have to have a health plan that. You know says you get to physicals a year or you need to have pharmacy drugs I can go pay for that on my -- pool -- government shouldn't have to do that so the key in your.

Mine is in ours yet the Democrats out of this whole process and that's total straight out to tell is here. -- PL Iditarod redesign the health that's right and in the state of Massachusetts and he's the president and CEO of beacon. Health strategy can -- taken your calls as well at 6172666868. Tim. Walk us through. Preexisting conditions. -- why health care in European is so expensive in Massachusetts we hear a lot about the expense we hear a lot of people attributed to the rob needs a maize -- travel leading law. And I'm interested in your take on that chide you about expense but also on the preexisting condition. Controversy sure.

on preexisting condition I think that we can all agree that. If you're someone who's looking he had health insurance and you happen to have a prior history. As long as there's system a place where there's a requirement to have a minimum health insurance. I think it's a society it's unfair to them and say do it is to have health insurance companies say. I'm not gonna take you framing that's why insurance exists right there are times and elect we do get sick. And down BO I think that there are you know I think that there is it inappropriate government role here to say you look at there is gonna be a certain kind of fairness level when we.

A minute but then we're getting Indian we're mixing two different things were mixing the insurance. Which is if they you know if he had cancer you need help and a 100000 dollar tab. Which is different from when you go to the doctor for 200 dollar check up -- you'll pay fifteen dollars that's on insurance that's a social program. And really what I think we've we've got our fully separated those two things and had to separate conversations because. That model of the two conflicting goals is what makes -- hard isn't -- I agree.

I I think that that's where the conversation that we have to have a society it's. What is a prepaid benefit meaning I want to have local -- is unwilling to pay you for Stanley planned thirteen thousand dollars a year for me to have. Access to any hospital I wanna go to inform you pay a hundred dollar co pay when they show up. Right verses what is health insurance which is how white guard my financial assets against bad are on a crisis crisis absolutely -- And in this consolation. Of those two concepts. And this up in a situation where you end up with mandated benefits. Minimum credible coverages that have a lot of different benefits put into it this is what they're gonna do Diana Washington right now which which concerns me the most -- We're gonna basically do a bit of an arms race you're gonna bid up all these.

All right so let's so help me understand I'll listen as one of our listeners -- kotsay I have diabetes we'll talk and I don't have -- BS. So preexisting condition walker -- that in the -- pricing that -- the insurance company that's -- are showing up with diabetes -- that's -- social program kicks in right. Well I mean you know --

And on the pre existing condition I think that the the point here is -- You insurance companies have an appropriate role to play when it says like if you've never covered yourself. And then also and you get sick and you want to show up and then kind of put those known cost onto the system. That's a bit of a challenge and this is where the rub this because well that's where becomes a social Harvey -- it does and I and I guess the point I'm making here in Massachusetts is. With a mandate and he's a white mideast become very important to say at a minimum union everybody -- you get everybody paying him because at you -- 15 years ago I had no issue now like you have an issue as long as we have a system which has. A fence around it where Arab recently -- at a minimum credible coverage. This whole issue of preexisting condition starts to go away so the point I would make is if if we were going to kind of come to a conclusion we said RA. Now we're gonna have a system where there is a requirement to have health insurance. Then you can have a situation we say okay. For the next period of time everybody needs to come into the system now got a pre acts right. Everybody and level set kind of an an if you will and open season and then after that you have situations where it's like if you haven't command. Then there's going to be some penalties if you look at partially because otherwise people are incentivized to sit outside the system only come -- when they need the services and you're on WRKO Tim Murphy good morning M.

I how we know good thanks for the cool. Hey I'm a private act but I don't like the government telling me what I shouldn't judges do why I'm financially. Penalized. If I don't have helped send sheriff. Nobody wants the -- and from a health insurance. The way things are I don't like is forced -- and then get -- it now is that if I met a lot about that but hey you know 500 dollar. Don't forest.

Whoa -- what's your argument specifically are you taking a libertarian approach you're saying the government has no right. To be telling me what to buy.

Yeah exactly why I don't know how they should get you know everything must find before all of this started and now all of us and I got laid off of work somebody Aaron Guiel. And that -- the outlook connector was like it's unbelievable really expense and a little more expensive -- like Oprah.

Really and that much was the connector Juanita. -- aren't -- dollar a month for you was an individual. Yeah okay that that's not -- visit -- the -- plans really that expensive -- there's -- plans that are a -- say is starting in the 200 -- there there -- some in the 200 dollar Welch who will take more your.

Calls and talk more about health insurance with a guy who helps -- the Massachusetts plan. So you've got questions this is the guy you wanna yell -- 6172666860. Thomas Todd takes AV WR talk station 8680 W. Hits WRK we're talking healthcare why not you know we are talking health who have been talking about a for a number of months and it's great that we had so many smart people in this town including.

Jim -- he's our guest here in the RKO studio. The architect if not the absolute offer. Of the Massachusetts health reform -- rowing along with -- to Macy and us senate president traveling but he was Mitt Romney's right hand guy in the guy in all the negotiations. And discussions Tim we had John Hurst on from the small businesses. -- association here in Massachusetts he says some his people are getting killed. -- dissing him premiums again year after year but this year in particularly pronounced 20/20 five -- plus percent increase is what's going on specifically. With a small business community in what key in Russia the connect to be don't know about those things yeah I mean I.

I I feel for small businesses I ran a company today in Massachusetts and we've got about 270 employees who were little bit more than a small business for purposes of insurance is but. It's really hard you know is as a business of my size or smaller those are the ones that John represents. You know unfortunately you get a limited. You know kind of offering of products from insurance companies there's not a lot of competition -- him but insurance companies won't. Did kind of against each other Buchanan and with one of them and and down we I think that there's some real challenges for small businesses. In this market and John's got some ideas about letting them kind of -- wants to do they have the ambient -- what's your reaction to that proposal hello I think in the absence of good offering sell through the connector for small businesses you know why not I mean why is it that you know small businesses. Don't have the advantage of the business has got 5000 that they can start to use negotiating power. I know there's always concerns will only the healthy businesses will get together. -- I don't kind of by -- candidly so. You know my -- my hope will be you know kind of four years into this experiment Massachusetts at the connector is now starting -- kind of think about ways to help small businesses. I think it's been a little late candidly I'm been disappointed that yeah there really hasn't been a focus on small business is -- I'll tell you. When we put together -- the legislation came up with this idea or of the connector we have called that in exchange. And we we work with the -- to The Heritage Foundation to pull it together. It wasn't just meant to do this come public subsidy program this commonwealth care. It was to help. Small businesses and individuals get a better deal but your observation is they have not had that focus since they came into being -- I I -- I don't think so it's not been as it in my mind their focus has been mostly on the commonwealth care product that that subsidy product that expansion if you will of people who. Donor enough CU or too much -- Medicaid bitter lesson 300% of the federal party level that's been the main focus which is laudable. But nobody shows who's in charge current I I think liberals -- I -- and on all the part they like best you know it's a funny is several and we are putting is still together president of Washington DC and so I had a a session over with the folks at the Cato Institute which is most people know very deliberate very thoughtful right here right center and Michael -- down there is a very smart guy and health -- and one of the things he kept poking me -- like I understand why -- this together I understand the framework. You've got a political board. And when Mitt Romney walks out that door. Antenna and -- different -- going to be a different thing and you -- an end and I think that there has been aspects of field I think the -- preferences have been more on the public trust kudos to -- for the force.

Yeah yeah yeah I'm forced to start college -- what to do the -- you know I'm in trouble and hopefully they'll be many around so much blogger 6172666. Seats succeed Tim Murphy is with us. Expert on health care architect of the Romney plan Peter -- WRK a high.

I good morning wanted to know if I just one couple we wondered if the place and more expensive aren't they know all of this. I -- look into it -- thing is don't really deal with the cost -- overly uses -- retooled mission expensive I think president. Widest every pregnant women need an ultrasound find out this debate why it.

Every -- is that -- Is that covered. It's but they're not doing it for gender right there doing their fur -- reason.

Do you know big big plane -- and I don't know what single woman -- doesn't get ultrasound it's ridiculous and a baby this already -- for higher risk people who really need it.

You let me take a stab -- dad and Tim champion if you want I believe the ultrasound top offered as a legitimate part of prenatal development and monitoring. The end why you did they will ask G would you like to know the sex the baby but that is not. The purpose it's just an incident well but but I primates as a nation maybe that's a cover story in the -- the real motivation is because that's what women wants they wanna know the gender everyone expects it now so becomes part of the -- cost of delivering healthcare. That everybody's gonna have maybe one -- extra ultrasound will --

I think it does a broader point here though I think what the caller is kind of alluding to which is this kind of over utilization of health care. And I think that that's an important point because an assistant today in which most of us get our health insurance through either our employer. For the government -- how we are not quote -- directly buying at the health insurance from a health insurance carrier. India for we're somehow kind of if you will this into mediated from. The actual usage patterns that we have in the cost associated there we have little skin in the game that they're motivated political why I -- I think -- just in -- it from a consumer perspective I think if you feel like it's quote unquote free F fifteens are co pay. Well why wouldn't -- use it and therefore if you're a politician and people want their free thing why would you give it to them all rational thought is out the window that's the trouble with having the government involved in the slot I think that that is an important point in that -- my biggest issue is straight today you if you think about it. Our healthcare system is run by large kind of organizations. Run by the government run by your employer. Run by insurance companies are run by kind of large provides hospitals -- whereas. The consumer where we know the system where dock preferences exactly and added two key players are in the background -- in -- and and unfortunately and I think if you take a look at some of the stuff that Regina person her has written over at Harvard Business School approves this point. It it's that when you do seem to mediate the consumer from the ultimate purchase. UN dealt with as you're saying Todd kind of irrational activity are just got a song idea to write a song that -- Kissinger mediation blues Susie and -- I'm Marcie are telling our hero Regina retainer in the rapist I myself.

I tell you this -- instead while you know I really think Obama has given that I think -- don't and that's how what do you think. --

Well he's fighting for which could make him. They could be exactly where you suggesting Marcy that he's thrown in the towel. And just trying to solidify his base by pursuing something it that he knows nobody wants Charlie you're an accent WR get Tim Murphy is here hi Charlie.

I know I feel too good morning I have a question. I feel like I'm being penalized because I'm self employed and I trial. You know my captors got -- my insurance company this year for all nine saying they don't conform them past. I'd like -- health insurance and you'll because they don't I don't have about. Medication covers -- pharmaceutical coverage in all. When you buy -- mentioned. I would take -- so we don't we have had recovered but I am going to be penalized and find but it stayed in Massachusetts. Because I take care myself and -- And even are you gonna be fine. And so after the fact so now it's your chance to make up and put additional last year undoubtedly find I don't think that's -- I think it's totally and Syria and --

Have you looked into other states where you could move your business.

Well I'm not sure but -- so early compared to a penalty for 2009. Which should not be tank they'll let me check -- some research topic after the fact. And I -- let -- tell myself on being healthy portrayal I think it's an absurd.

Well that's what -- the government involvement in your personal decision and you talked about it turned out to stem about the again perhaps overly rich -- being -- made the basic minimum yeah I mean I I think that that's been a you know a big cut mistake on of the plan knew we had. You're talking about the Massachusetts Massachusetts -- when -- it SA and I'm a firm believer that in individual requirement to carry health insurance is important to make sure that our system is one of which we don't have. People if you will kind of free riding costs using the emergency rule when you make a statement like that I'm I'm just curious in because well I think about the constitution when I think about an idea like that. And our grants is very different on a state level and is on the federal level. But to me the idea of the government telling us what we have to guard by is something that goes against the grain. But what America's supposed to be about when you're formulating policy like that I understand how on a systemic level you take over gonna have. Universal coverage we have to ever everybody paying -- part of the system otherwise it won't work. Is that a consideration when you guys are sitting around frame in this thing absolutely aiming to get it wouldn't hear from a guiding principle.

perspective as you can appreciate with a you know kind of Mitt Romney's political philosophy. Going and having the government tell somebody to do something is not where we start -- tonight -- start but. Todd I think that thing and you know sometimes gets lost this conversation is this prior to this health care reform wanted to get a Massachusetts. There was over one billion dollars. Of services being used in the health care system in Massachusetts. For which there was no quotable quote reimbursement for there was no -- right do we mean the we don't know why a dollar bill exactly and that was the problem and the way we solve the problem is find a way to pull more people on the dole none and I think the way that which we solve the problem was to say we had set up prior to dislodge a bunch of the -- time reimbursement structures to get some type of partial reimbursement to hospitals and community health centers in it was. Bankrupting the seat in the following way. Now we were using a lot of Medicaid dollars to kind of sleuths that money back into help us kind of meet these partial reimbursements. And the federal government came -- said. No more that we don't like that system game result of the game is over it's too opaque we donors to -- money's going. So -- we had a fiscal situation that was confronting the state in which the federal council is gonna sweep this money away. I think what we've set out in this state by moving people to the commonwealth care program. And in it should be noted that there are about 200000 plus people who are now buying health insurance today who were buying it before who are getting no government assistance whatsoever. As a result of putting this -- place. We have the better waiting at a track where is the money going within the system.

Understood but they're all the only point I'm trying to make is this system is then deciding what the policies going to be based on what's best for the system instead of making because of the mistakes made in the past. Rather than saying how should this -- let's make it the way it should work so you guys needed a way to make sure you lose Medicaid money the federal government to bribe him with money to. Make certain policies happen and the whole thing gets distorted. How we've got go to our break. There are gonna O'Donnell a camera we have we got a break as we get Steve -- we get there is had a busy busy dates in this been great we might have to re connect. On this issue -- Welby on the connector costs it what's going on -- Washington altogether too brief from my perspective and I think I can say the same thing from Todd but. I think it's great having come back -- things just -- long -- Griffey he is the man he is the man short break we'll be right back --