Jim Sturgis.

More okay. Good morning Thursday morning Tom and Todd were enjoying another rainy day right here -- messy she's like -- Seattle London take effect which I don't mind cool rainy foggy. We better take the best parts of want to. Then we keep our food much better off that we we are much better off by the way you'll excuse me your.

Throwing out throwing bones to. The ski resort operators but until then they're gonna get walloped. Beginning on while much so important to -- now that's great news this legacies and put -- all the auction is just an awesome vacation -- the nice way to replenish the slopes which the first consumers on this and and it's been a while they have the snow guns don't -- we're gonna continue our conversation about the central falls school if you haven't heard this is shutting down a high school there the -- that. They they basically under federal law now have -- four options for what to do with a failed school. The bottom 5% in any state except for Massachusetts which blows these things off apparently. But the the lowest 5% of performing schools in in any state have to be dealt with. -- specific guidelines offered by the Department of Education. And they've exercise 2 of them in central falls the first one was try to work things out with teachers. But the teachers won in ninety bucks an hour to do any extra work. So instead they fired all the teachers as a way to rebuild the school. We're very excited about this. And we haven't studio Jim Sturgis from the pioneer institute a public policy resource -- research organization. He's executive director and they do a lot a lot of stuff fund as -- as Charter Schools not exclusively education but absolutely a bulk of your work is in and around educations and address thanks -- generous so kind of -- into education here actually dropped his kids school's morning before I am not cruises -- And drop money ahead -- so they study this stuff all the time they know at pioneer exactly what's going on so we'll continue our conversation and have -- here to guide us a little bit on what the policy issues are so I've given falling what's going on its central falsely --

We have a group next door in Cumberland Rhode Island with the mayor action was the first mayor in my opinion no Rhode Island -- popular right of other mayors to. Implement a charter school there. Just less than last year while so that's there's been a lot of progress a lot of work and education the governor has been pushing this for a long time. He really want to hire -- governor Richard -- Karachi area so it's his superintendent that is -- really energized a central falls issue there was a long time commissioner down there who was in a nice person but really wasn't moving things terribly fast car Cherie said. Look we -- to -- person and -- gifts to the commissioner down there the super smart she's young she worked in the DC schools before you guys know historical Michelle -- Who is the superintendent Washington DC and she's been doing a lot of work closing down schools firing people bring a lot of younger teachers changing their curriculum frameworks. They had their adopting Massachusetts curriculum frameworks -- they know that. The stuff that we teach in our schools here DC area and easy okay -- just wanna -- and so miss gist of the this new superintendent Rhode Island is problem going to be of that mindset of that school I think she wants to compete. Could you -- souls -- Michelle -- you what she can live absolutely.

Good death and then maybe the Department of Education to get his very interest they were talking earlier about how this is an unusual revolution because it's being driven by Democrats the president. The secretary of education. Who are trying to fight their own party's traditional commitment to bad education. It's central falls is is using the tools that have been given to them by the Department of Education. And the expectation that they're gonna make a bad school good they'll break down a central falls school for us. Why is this high school is it unusual that 40% of the kids for example don't get a diploma. It's not unusual in central falls EPO is interned in the scheme of high schools in -- out of urban areas uneasily but take a look at Massachusetts for second. The highest drop tolerate that we have in our schools about 30% I think that is Lawrence. And -- have millions of the entering class yes the percentage of kids who don't get -- that's right when the road warriors to a four year -- also resides people who stat that high school in the ninth grade -- in -- maybe 38% to -- won't won't be here at the end of the year for years that's correct it dropped out that's -- went back home. Went to the streets to try to find work to -- up okay absolutely. A military -- things so the central falls is the worst high school in Rhode Island. Before growing base graduate for a drop our rates and also in terms of student performance of the ones who get make it all the way to graduation. Well they have horrible results this horrible results exactly because you would think any school has a high dropout rate should be able to do better job educating because they've gone are the refresh brand. Well they should at least get good results were the ones left behind you would think he would think that section of the -- still though it's not it's probably the -- the most densely populated place. In New England really funny. You know population per square mile base and they say it's one of the poorest places in Rhode Island absolutely helped what are the lessons of this this Tom likes to defend the school and say you know it's very it's very difficult. To educate not a -- there haven't carried a lot of water -- got a lot of touchdowns and education and I'll get an election or talk I don't I love this time. I gonna take some -- he says it's typically you know they have a lot of illegal immigrants are a lot of foreign language fears Heidi educate these kids they come from bad homes you can't educate kids from their homes.

Minute I item I think Tom doesn't think. At least some folks of his party do think. And frankly some folks in the Republican Party think that. The fact the matter is we all know the Charter Schools have worked very well in this regard we know that. Changing -- management the most important thing in turning your -- the school is the manager and having power at the school level. It doesn't have power what kind of power means powerful money empower people. In other words higher I've got -- aerial attack mode -- not to your paper but you can't hold somebody accountable they don't have the power to actually make decisions on the key. Elements -- have a good teacher high quality -- could actually gives the kids can I re direct resource to make sure I'm shoring up mathematics is the mathematics performance isn't as good to they have actually enough. But resources to engage these students in extracurricular activities that's what it's all about.

Is it still possible. That these are actually good teachers in central falls and their right to be outraged because everybody else's failure. Is being taken out on -- the federal law allows for.

A fifty up to 50% of the teachers who were there before we come back in and I would guess it's a pretty good. Guesstimate. Of the number of teachers the percentage of teachers who were actually really good there might here's the root of the reason why. There are certainly good teachers their -- caught up in a system that isn't working one that has low expectations that does not hold them accountable has no measures no policy direction right. We don't give people direction. If you don't tell mirror incentives why they should act in a certain way they won't act that way. But there's probably 50%. That say this is okay let's just go along to get along. And those people have to remove the have to understand that the into the day. They have credentials. They have a job and -- before one K and these kids have nothing if they're not willing to put on the line they should be out.

But he is saying the teacher should have accepted the idea of did putting extra hours in without extra credit. Yeah. And -- argument for doing what everybody -- a -- what get on the phone and dispute this if you want this germs Sturgis from the pioneer institute a think tank on education and other issue 617. 266 exceeds sixty why should teachers do more for the same amount of money.

But teachers who don't wanna do in their school system should just move on find a job at a different school system -- allow people who wanna come in there at that pay rate. Come in there and do the job there are plenty of good teachers out there look Teach for America. Has from my understanding something on the order of 10% of Ivy League students have signed up for key from two to I have to have applied to Teach for America which is a group. Which tries to bring together as many really smart people wanna work in urban schools those folks will go in and work there at death salary and the work your heart so. The sad thing we have to do one time generation -- to change the schools to change the trajectory of these kids going forward all we are screwed.

That's for so many grand could yet to of these Teach for America kids census immigrant is the average salary agreement in the school I am not against paying teachers well. Okay official we can retain talking about market rates them up. I think market rates you'd get them to go in just because they're passionate about it. You probably great I think there's something and it's something about the passion. How to serve particularly in the troubled school systems and to be part of a solution to be proud of lighting. Lighting lights accusers have ever had a bleak. A bleak existence -- I also think unfortunately the realities of the marketplace today I mean you have 20000 people show up -- sailor held over ten bucks now I gotta put food on the table. I don't like that aspect of -- I don't like this kind of pushed to the bottom because they're median of people right now unemployed. Desperate for anything that to me doesn't just as -- a wave of to have to build the system but I do agree with the -- on the on the -- sure I gotta I gotta bring this local -- helped -- so we see an aggressive superintendent down here in Rhode Island she is she's pushing the ball forward. Do we anticipate a similar stuff here in Massachusetts. Identify those 5% of schools come up with a four federal options tell us which one you're gonna do madame or -- superintendent bubble bubble bath. And then this kind of chain reaction happening in Massachusetts as well include.

To be fair to this administration and especially to legislature widget which a lot of hard work and creating more charter school and urban areas and also pretty silly couldn -- school model. I feel like that was the vehicle they want to take they -- 127000. New kids in. Urban districts. Going to Charter Schools which will be great schools. They also want -- trail this thing called the innovation model which if you will codify this a lot of the activity. That's against is doing in Rhode Island. Which is we have a turnaround model you can actually change out the management. Here's the problem with what Massachusetts is done and frankly it's in Kirkland if it works -- celebrate everybody's you celebrate you're gonna to. But would -- is doing there is a street shot. You're saying here's a shot across the bow we're gonna do this and everybody else has to take note. You're talking about the closing the central yeah all schools to listen to -- schools is -- us about everybody in Providence or for other schools and a look and help. It's saying get your act together because were common SI you know message got it got us here. Deer are so many different layers embedded in that law that say well here's would talk about a turnaround model than winning ticket to the school committee would have. A variety of different people who are you know teachers on a panel to talk about what kind of turnaround was I was so you can't have the kind of directive that happened what is okay now what -- will take think about Lawrence which is in receivership now and we need a lot of work here and especially schools I would argue. If the commissioner wants to implement the Massachusetts turnaround model there. The commercial probably 44 years we'll have to focus on Lawrence in Lawrence alone because all the different process that's associated with cumbersome process it's -- congress it you can't take your eyes off the book as the locals will run rings around you on that. And rightfully so it's been their prerogative up until now now so. It's gonna be faster in Rhode Island and it may be messy here. Because I wanted to be faster down they want to -- for our let's take some calls on this Jim Sturges is here from the pioneer institute. We're talking about the schools the central false story 6172666. -- succeed John your NWR kill atomic --

BitTorrent your -- this morning John. Yeah they are being polished. This finger Rhode Island if I remember correctly. The superintendent is dog so. Yeah I shouldn't be hiring back fifty dispense. Of these teachers that she's reading so.

Is allowed to hire back has a maximum 50%.

Well wait so wait -- there I'm sure there are teachers who are willing to. To a little actual -- don't have anything to about a small wonder they've just been doing a good enough. I don't want that she's trying to -- is that not correct.

That's correct. Yeah you have India have to assume as Jim said there's a -- very competent caring folks. -- say look -- committed to this this is that this is part of my life it's a crusade what's your issue with that --

I know I I think that's I think it's awesome and we don't part of it too was a total position will require you to do two weeks of training. Police training during the summer time which they also blocked anyway that's something you -- like what would value guests earlier. This you don't you know it it doesn't bode well I know you're actually not -- have in the --

And there you might take a pay cut along what -- do so why it I think it's appropriate to mention the environment we're in employment wise. Tony here -- WRKO Jim Sturgis is here from the pioneer institute.

Good -- always. Just -- just like comment. I just stop posting on education it was horrible horrifying. What goes on it'll an education in terms of the DC schools what they're doing there -- with Charter Schools.

the time. Schools just be clear DC that's probably the largest per pupil spending. And NIV you know wait I don't know why the numbers are -- I've heard it much higher than that is and they also get the worst results probably in the country is that true Jim. They get I think Detroit's trying to run a pretty good race for the Mon now one -- that they do they do very poorly they have sure a lot of progress -- last year and a half. But you know a year and a half of data is not good enough to show them that they're doing the really making progress sorry Tony what do you wanna okay.

What what when they win if we should I never understood. Teachers do not punch -- they are salaried person. So -- if you work pomp and Wimbledon this US dollar a person you could work eight hours. And hours indicated that you could could come oops.

Basic hours and still get paid a base baby but --

Get to work a hundred dollars and you don't get over time you're right.

That's why don't why should the teachers will ask these contract should because they should play hardball with these states say teachers.

There it is closer estimate -- five job just like any bad with this that they gonna do homework I understand that but that is part of -- job. That is also other products that they get they get -- great attention that they did.

And we tie with these 657 biceps are doing less paychecks didn't get some other person.

Public service this this this is what that PG used to be used to be called public.

you're right Tony Blair at the same time it is important notice a very difficult job. Very emotionally draining especially under the circumstances a lot of teachers have to teach under very difficult environment and then look at the support they deserve. Yeah I would say this Tony look.

They are not really salaried. Workers in the sense that if you take a look at any contract we worked in the Springfield Contra can be -- at about three years ago. There are probably about 250 pages over work rules. In addition to all kinds of stipulations around how many minutes they could actually work coming minister would see after school how many minutes before class started the morning they would be there. Human limitations that the unions have negotiated into their grandchild to the minute I think this is what us talking about in terms of the ability to manage. The successful schools have the ability diminish people. It to the resources. On the -- the human capital side people and the money and most of us schools don't have that ability and you know what. That's the problem that is ultimate the promise not to do all the teachers we have stink it's not the majority stink frankly a lot of are really really good. The fact we have some of the most talented teachers -- we approach the best educated teachers across.

it would be nice meal pay the better teachers more money to keep them in the schools and incentivize others to become as good as they are coming huge comic huge believer in making the -- of the profession more professional yeah. And that includes a salary that includes a decent pension because we had of the stars all the time about the the great schoolteacher worked for forty years. Herself or her pension is is eighteen -- someone of these six figure rip -- that you read about but -- an important point about the power of charter school C simmering around this but the Charter Schools can -- and these environments to make great things happen. Because they're freed up from these contracts that have been negotiated they can say where -- may have an extra hour every day. They can make expectations new on the teachers are JJ laundry year teachers come in all enthused ready to do it they -- less money. Kenya next NW RQ would -- Sturgis high.

warrant. Or court earlier called the very good thing it doesn't expect there. They say -- as good luck bicycle bubbles and sort is as a systemic problem with the old system because the -- great. Grade subsidy -- water out of.

It's a good question is is it perhaps. Do do they need to reach back to into preschool so we're gonna get to the router is also that kids are where it is systemic it's great -- call can be great point you're actually right if you take a look at the elementary schools in the the central falls middle school there they're not good and do not preparing kids so they're actually setting up a lot of these teachers to fail. Completely agree here's the rub though when you have 48% drop outs of your students dropping out of four years. And you have teachers are unwilling to take a couple of steps forward. To make sure they can engage these students we can coordinate their curriculum one meeting the week. To coordinate with -- do in the classrooms. That's when you say that there's not enough commitment there to get it done at the end you're you're obviously right. I think these teachers probably burned out more frequently because they have to train -- these students the mostly right but the fact of the matter is. We need these folks to take a series of their job is to be -- kids learned. There are no excuses.

Thing is people to understand to turn around a large organization sometimes you have to be unfair to individuals we tend over fixate. On the needs of the individual teachers in this case they if I were charged were turning around Toyota for example. I go in -- firing a lot of people starting -- mr. -- himself. To make some.

We're going to emerge from the area the speed of sound. Tough talk we're talking education reform a central falls Rhode Island story. Where the blowing -- the school effectively to acquire all the teachers and start over to try to make it successful. Jim Sturgis is here from pioneer institute they develop policy ideas and right off the pieces and advise and consult on how to make education better so we're talking about education reform controversial organization with a ton of time was pioneer that --

Come if not much beloved much respected for sure and it's I think it's always better to be respected before us have been addressed the problem. I think being -- all done well but only you could do that mr. speaker -- a I when you sweetheart Sarah I respected them and love nor are any time now for almost you know at for a site that up -- Obama really said it appeared first responded that I -- aside 617266. Exceeds sixty Mike you're NWR.

Good morning. Good morning Joe tomorrow night. I'd try it Garmin your cash that is what I -- suggestion out. If you're really gonna be serious or vote Sierra industries -- the poverty stricken areas they Laura failure rate -- schools. I suggest that we get -- leash market. Oh -- just types like DC I. Boston all Latin. And all these other people. That put the students into these schools. With this short. Guarantees going to be successful or will pour in the street kids could just fall by the wayside. And Theodore -- These smaller schools like you name hello I'm actually going to the schools. What just like yeah they are conscription. There's certainly teach you know these schools it's tradition.

Why don't you -- might let me let what try to respond Doug -- about smug elitist schools labs was a public scrutiny -- by exam why.

What can go Darby and -- but you know I don't. Truly know very slow it love it up -- did was do we need to tell anybody and it's not the -- Hollywood talk had been easy and -- USO IPC only and not another thing about PCI you watch a grade school.

Controlled and public trapped like going to be more war but now I don't got to look how good our our little I would call the web.

Not toward -- more I think --

there's a Latin school kid -- just killed so within the past year and a half and their kids about what's below -- is living in the past I have it's got smug and elitist. I ask -- how -- were the smart this was interviewed Helio is a plus schools to perform like Boston Latin school BC how would you not say by job is done.

Oh definitely do done exceeds the the other thing is the the problem is really a lack of quality schools look if you if you think you can solve the problem. By taking two schools with very intelligent students in migrating them to schools that are not working your fooling yourself. The larger issue that we have is people like me don't put your finger at Tom Finneran. Put your finger at me I lived in Boston I'm an urban rat I have always been I moved out because I knew my kids were not -- agreed shake. The -- of -- do you expect me to put my kid on the line. No I'm gonna make sure the Mikey gets the best education possible you need to create good schools that's the puzzle we can solve it and it's doable if you can get the year and.

And subtle way get the politics out of the way and have everybody on board with the idea let's build great schools 617. 2666. Seats succeed John good morning -- NWR KO.

He wanted to say doughnut monster. Amman like student -- education and we are talking with these issues all the time now. We always focus on large because -- decision disastrous it. Really yeah states or 35% of students applying to graduate did not sixty.

35%. Are graduating you're saying this is 65% drop out rate of those entering in the ninth grade. Sean I'd love to see your numbers you know let's let's -- and the department of education and I'd -- the mean frankly. I -- to question stuff would be great to see you numbers so please what do you have to Madrid reload it yes -- did -- pioneer institute.

It's just so let's include some -- graduation it. I don't. -- Typical passage for example we have 97% graduation night but be based and cause actual expense 400 dollars more -- per student Dumars does and so. I was Australian class that the prohibition -- 90% Hispanic school so. They're very limited English proficiency so they can Caspian get secure and read your test. Its doors which studies -- these things impact that it can't be seen whether it was being says so they just drop oh. So it's not the school might even the language but this girl who worked in Marin schools for years says -- which -- huge hurdle. The columnist -- DP don't care what education. -- question if you magician maybe you can you usually we make better schools need better schools the students in this -- is clean.

Roll -- year old culture please don't roll. Well good oh that's -- would you do it let's say you have all the worst future -- worst culture from all the worst -- they were still immature school building. There's some schools that prove they can educate those kids there others that can't. Scroll -- about.

Well that their charter school one of Roxbury prep Charter Schools when I -- I'd like to list quickly -- you talk about the kept a lot of applause so glad you went there and you came out educated up. -- thought that was boss especially on joining the amazing wanted to go read a -- on sort of a key to geek. Conversation here for a second if your interest in taking a look at school can actually work with limited English proficient students. I take a look at -- this is a study they came out by Tom Kean. At Harvard. He took a look at the different -- every single year that tip I it's pretty astounding it said the the National Bureau of Economic Research you can see it there.

End of you know across the board I think what people ought to consider her or. I mean I don't think Sean meaning you've excuses but these are excuses there are schools out there that are proven it can be done and they have been road blocked. By the political establishment in this state and other.

Should that we acknowledged the difference however between co pastor for example in the culture that -- has some -- in -- into its students and -- and in what the -- are skewed to bringing. The same time it's Jim to a recall you send that the speaker speaker to Leo that is. Soon after -- just before it became speaker visited a charter school Lebanese -- it's a PR I'll say it -- don't kind of weigh a hundred different cultures -- hundred different languages and yet that school is I think according to your comets in the speaker's comments. While they're doing kind of astounding stuff.

Excel academy is a tremendous school -- a lot of kids who have. The language deficiencies if you will. One thing to note is that though they are no excuses schools -- and -- as well as excel academy. As a result one to the point that showed is making is that essentially of course and -- drop out because. These kids come from different backgrounds. Think about it bureau -- you're dropping on the tenth grade let's say. You've had ten years of education still you're having big problems with the English to something fundamentally oversight system that gets into that broken system 6172666860. Pay your NWR -- Jim Sturgis from the pioneer institute Taipei.

So the money at the national grain and -- Stanton and now calling them I don't know whether women that believe they literally it's gonna work there is you know it is -- it's society needs to his fans. Perpetrated paid half of about the -- I'm going to have and you know like -- and with a couple lately and that clash. The another trap and then we have. And now -- to allow us and willing do you think -- why do you think that's an important element to move slowly and gently you folks have. Every my -- five days a week until they I don't schooled through. And I you don't have -- they get children evidently in the mining static addressed. What -- wanna wait today. But he -- intimidate. And it's very very typical.

Hey thanks for the call I'm a big believer in school uniforms I think it's a wonderful thing but Jim I don't know any of the science behind any of the data. Well I think the point that -- is making music culture matters and do what can -- rock spree prep. Which showed Tom was just mentioning a second go to sustain middle school in Boston which is ninety plus percent minority very very high level of -- poor kids. Did you an incredible job in these kids go to Boston land after Roxbury prep and thank you I think he should go to Boston Latin. You welcome to the school as soon as you walking you see great quotes from great people who achieve great things. You see immediately that these kids all have uniforms and in the hallways they cannot speak between classes because their full god -- they -- do not speak to -- you speak to get pulled out. Because they have two minutes to movie from one class cynics because. Every minute is precious it's time on learning --

Most schools. Most public schools would not would find that incomprehensible to even believe that you could if you wanted to impose such a thing and kids everyone's in -- we -- Wendy Murphy on as a substitute or a friend just gonna calling in to comment. And she was astounded when she heard that she said that's impossible. That's impossible -- lending the fact that while others like it was a criminal action because these -- middle school kids and a supposed to be rambunctious follow -- control everything else in it is I mean it literally is like going into eight temple learning. And that's it works because it's articulated very early on to the parents of the students and that culture they broadcast that message content.

I guess Olimpia would say is I don't think that's for everybody and that's where parental choice comes in look. If I am a parent and I think that's the best thing for Mikey Mikey needs lots of structured great there are schools that work really well which have an ethos built around. Cultural activities music and that's only -- if that's what parents want to go death threat for the kids that's great to. But -- in the public schools frankly there is again my kids go to public schools. There is this kind of dearth of lists of cold treat kids to be responsible and to respect each other. And so I think she has -- hallway always an oft times as some of those schools is like battle that's unbelievable that's crazy so I'm out a directory prep model any day of my kids. 617266. Exceeds 6 C good morning to you Hank you're on our jail.

Yes I'd like to ask all of you there's been one aspect. Lot of education that has not been mentioned don't want to -- I've been listening to this program get any of you gets what it is. The school lunch pals that's now money air it no and improving education not what are you mentioned it.

go ahead tell us technology. I don't think it's a much relevance do.

Well what are absolutely. I think you have private enterprise and brought technology. To improve teacher didn't. To improve god to be enhanced security duties. -- I don't know if you -- that much you. -- work with that but it. As what programs per student but each state can -- an example of what it is you're driving -- you do first study islanders -- program. Better is bad bet for massive -- virtually every subject. Where students have a -- software program. There and -- embed it enabled the student. To study odd to bring up in -- other state of Massachusetts there and -- or. So they actually go home they could music school and they just above bring up their username and password. And they go onto it. Andy.

You -- you know this sounds like a distraction -- did you jewel have Jim Sturgis responded that when we continue 617. 2666816. It's -- toxic CD WRKO. Boston socks on Boston talk station AMC -- WR Treo. WRKO this news Boston's talk station AM succeed W more trio.

WR here we're talking education one of my favorite topics we know you're gonna just stop by and just -- we welcome your I don't apparently most of we'll let our audience likes to run my life it's. Just so much.

Crushed rationed and this so much passion to find and then do the right thing. Let's go to Charleston S and -- are -- good morning Charles.

Good morning thank you pick in my car a couple of other points. I am talking about schools beat Iowa Latin root -- the good men and special education kids. -- okay. Like pick blue and desperately usually in the public schools got these kids.

That's a good question I just wanna put my own little reaction and to me that's a good thing Charles and that the public school should be back in the business of doing that like they were -- poor kids when if if if children did not behave properly. Or couldn't survive in the classrooms with the kids who were doing normal level worker involved that they were put into a special class to deal with them. And now they're mainstreamed in an in the larger culture is forced to absorb them. Which I think is one of the problems with the public schools how do you feel about that advocate god be interest and in Jim's response based on the data -- is a person that -- a lot of knowledge has been accumulated out there about how to teach kids with challenges and limitations that we didn't have when you're an hour in the classroom -- which tells you tell us what your take --

Well it seems to me that the limited number of the Senate in the special education children to Charter Schools BCI am glad -- flow of public. While both the public schools aren't allowed to have -- police if they're not working out.

But they should be going to. And we know we can't we just have to change the rules somebody has made the awards are not -- child's right constitutionally kind of a school and resentment you can provide an alternative yeah this is an alternative senate Democrats are. Party so I see your kid is limited we're not gonna judge okay priority -- everybody's got to me in the same classroom.

You Charles thanks for the question I think it's it's a great question it's one the people been talking about quite a bit that as well as English language learners they are low percentages of both special needs and English language learners. -- charters I believe also BC I've never really seen the last numbers. -- couple things there is actually no evidence all. That. Charters ask. Kids to leave study is something that's been put out there over and over again there is no evidence of that if you take a look again but don't I have stricter rules where they say if you don't meet our expectations hero kid dirty work with -- though. -- they try to keep them take a look at Boston Charter Schools in Boston traditional public schools. On what they call attrition which is essentially what Charles was asking about that is the number of kids who leap over four year period. The number of kids who leave traditional. Boston Public Schools. Is higher than in Charter Schools. And worse than that the drop already is much higher so. Does that's the first point to make your second point is absolutely valid -- much lower percentages a lot of that is a function of what parents a particularly of those special needs students in Charter Schools as well as that. You know PC high. That's because parents choose to place their kids in different settings for some some which are very good reasons Charter Schools as far as facilities. You know -- pre prep is a great school those on the second floor of the building that's a very facility so if for an area that perspective you know my kids go to school in Brookline. Yeah normally where at a time -- so the dvd facility there is may need to accept more special needs kids and we really make an effort in Brooklyn to go after them. But the point is kid to kid. A kid who's pour a kid who comes in two years behind in to a charter school and put that kid into the traditional public school to do much good return to school so it.

Not every Sturgis pioneer institute what's the website pioneer institute dot -- dot org so I -- your being -- always say well -- you -- he -- England is next united back at five duty tomorrow don't forget to check out the website. But WRK dot com Tom and Todd page lots to do including the caption contests. -- yeah.

Thousand want to. Radio window of her. Your home for a college guard every afternoon from free so -- here. On Boston's. You hardly know.