Pam Wilmot

Welcome back to talk apparently about listening to its -- money and six CD WRK you know. We've been discussing the election an elevation of senator -- married Democrat from Plymouth. To become the next senate president. Senator former senate president now I can use that adjective form -- senate president Robert traveling he stepped down yesterday. Terry Murray was elected by her colleagues we've been talking about the implications of that. As part of yesterday's developments senate two former senate president traveling he.

Indicated that he will establish any lobbying firm. To represented clients who have interest or questions problems before a local and local as well as state. Government agencies there is a one year cooling off period he will not be able to lobby members of the house or the Senate where he. Work but most recently so there's a one year cooling off period. In his quote in the paper today from PM will -- Who's the executive director of common cause of Massachusetts. Not surprisingly this quote caught my attention and it has me has my blood boiling. As most of PMs quotes do. Which is expressing her concern about the revolving door has concerned us for a long time so on and so forth Nash goes on to say it's a reality political life that keep that people can make big -- through the connections it's very attractive when you've been living on a government salary I find one thing that I can agree with he had rich attractive when you've been living on a government salary because a government salary is virtually. -- of a vow of poverty and other senate president has chance to go out and apply his skill set that is broadly respected. Has -- immense. Positive commentary and a lot of interest and and common cause seems to have a great with -- I've got a grip with common cause -- will mock from common cause well. I'm doing great how are you this morning.

Just I don't quite awake yeah I know you've been out for awhile but -- there.

Well hey let's -- thank you for coming on let's get right to it however. Jimmy got to explain to me how the Senate president -- pop out -- Trout but still -- the shorthand. How grab opportunity to go out and do things represented people who have interest our concerns in front of some local and state agencies. Is troubling in I guess the fundamental question that I have is. What is he supposed to do he has an obligation. To his family and he has the skills that. That many people about private sector the private sector say gee we wish we had that he'll -- cut we make use of that.

Of course of course and that's one of the reasons that you know. Don't get quite a thing everything that you say and options well and that we have advocated for a two year cooling off period. Even -- we do not support which many of these. Well whenever -- out there will work -- exactly.

There -- ever sort of crazy the comic -- this. Well I haven't met them yet they they in the they have the legitimate center in the mental health clinic.

Now that if they -- And let them because. One that would be. It just too restrictive unnecessary. I don't have a pop -- going to. Local communities. And helping. Companies figure out permitting processes those sorts of things. The reason why the legislature passed when your cooling off period to begin in the way region like congress is considering a two year cooling off period. It's because of the concerns that I raised in the newspaper it is about lobbying former -- Eventually those connections. Do. Attenuated and so it really is just terrible last deal that is left. I think part of the concern is some of that date I have had a tremendous respect for the work battle I think she did a terrific job as senate president we can agree on everything. I wish -- done a few things -- done. Obviously but he also went to great credit to the body and and the I think an institution where members public at. Now that's -- One at the concern is not things that that happened in this instance it happened in an instant in the past does that. You'd set up. Health care bill to get yourself -- job now I don't believe that's what happened I don't think anybody believe that's what happened that there are a lot of cynics out there who were talking about exactly that issue.

Cambodia what has happened -- that you know it's Henneberg randomized settle for a long long time. That because there -- Al -- who have a negative view of every one and every every one in public service in every thing that occurs in the public arena. That somehow or by the way is supposed to bin -- Engine deflect to cynics and they said about that is impossible to meet so it's a one year cooling off period. They would say no to and if it's not to its three eventually to become ten because they see everything through a cynical. Lands as opposed to looking at the world. Which requires reporting. Disclosure and I I think most of those same crazy advocate that you made reference to. Which say isn't it -- sham that politics becomes increasingly. A sport for the wealthy. For people who have immense wealth and don't understand the concerns of working people how then if you want to get working people to come into public service for a period of time do you say to those same working people are you gonna -- cool you jets for two years previous five years how -- they support the family -- it's an impossibility to reconcile. Those two point of view and that's what these crazy activists and advocates continue to present.

Well two years I would make -- Argument with you that that would be impossible I agree that potentially. If you had. Permanent ban for example some people have been any bad debt that would be -- probably unconstitutional. And and ultimately result in something injured discussing. I have some sympathy and one of the issues is that's half. Any rational. Thorough discussion and back out. Compensation with and the public sector. A difficult conversation that happened during this this budget time about the way it's been able in the past is probably not the best way. Two. To actually be a precedent in a way that public that. Except to adapt that there. -- and an independent commission to look at this through. --

We've been talking to him will motto of common cause -- laugh at some commentary and critique that the she found it finds it unfortunate about the revolving -- The appearance of that troubles lots lots of people in my response back was the appearance BDM. Every person in America including people who served in public office have a right to go out and do what ever. Who would have a lawful when about lawful occupation is available to them get paid what ever they want without comment or critique from anybody. Panel in be in a position to support the family in the way that this skill set. Allows and on specifically on the issue of senate president traveling is -- talked -- PM. As I was keeping a little running list -- in the past couple weeks all the speculation about we're trapped might ago. Mass hospital association was mentioned the -- association of community hospitals the mass Biotech counselor Wright was Mintz -- which is a pretty well known lobbying firm and then of course this this last possibility richest one we're gonna go to get a status on firm from -- so it's not as if he's. You know as he's reached its not as if he's reach some kind of scratching arrangement with people who used to appear in front of them. I can I not only kind. Quibble with what he's chosen to -- I think it's instructive to the -- audience that. The private sector we report many people who calling he would report to. Cherish and value the ideals and the principles of the private sector as opposed to the public sector. The private sector by my count for private sector organizations. Were asked to trap of because they recognize he is a skillful capable experienced --

Are right well let's be honest there I mean obviously he is there still. But if you whether it's senate presidency would be equally skillful and he would not be getting those offered.

But if if if if this is what.

become an. President and and back the answer is no way he would have been getting those off.

Well -- honoring Russian -- who is the definition of a back bench he was a Republican senator and a body that's overwhelmingly. Democratic. Makes a very good income -- to contradict that point your assertion. He makes a very good income again because there is -- demonstrated. Ability and it's not just. On regression back bill okay yeah I know you'd know bill Cassell was a state represented he'd never strip does each damaged in any committee in the house. But he's a nice smile likable guy he represented clients in exactly that fashion.

thank you wouldn't have gotten plenty he wouldn't have gotten jobs. But he would not be. In the running the same way for all these top offers. Because he obviously does have command is -- that Japan. Regardless of whether he let them. Percent of presents officer if you -- in chairman of the committee he wouldn't -- plenty of connections and no connections are also. Part of what didn't first set -- it is not just it's the relationship. Work them lobbying and I know that.

Is no question about it that as a relationship I would characterize the relationship is one of respect he would not have been so here's his bid we have the -- us in the -- going in different directions. He had the skill set that earned the respect of his colleagues. They chose him to be the Senate president now is going to be punished economically and his family will be punished. Economically because he had the skill set that -- judgment and respect of his colleagues -- committed two ways the first of all he had the skill set the character of the principles. That convinced his constituents his neighbors in East Boston and rent the revere Winthrop to vote for a and secondly he -- that's against the same skills came to the surface. Demonstrated. It in an -- earned him the respect of his college so they elevated him to the next position and because he has skills and good. Ability to work with a wide variety of people he has clearly going to be economically punished I scratch my head and if it doesn't make any sense.

Non competition cause there's all sorts of limitations in New York and other in business about.

But she can do for a period of time. And it's part of what you might not work for public life you also -- I'm sure. You're I mean certainly I've criticized salaries for top CEOs in the past they're nowhere close to what is being talked about in this case but. Once -- you don't. I was not pointing particularly at the Senate present but rather a trend. That is something in common cause has been addressing for many years at all rubble including in the congress. So. I think that that is fair game but regardless of whether I had been pointed at -- are not. I'm you know you criticize me. -- have criticized you in the past it's fair game there's nothing. We're all big people there we understand we have role to play -- traveling understands that as well.

Sure what that aren't on that point -- common cause itself you folks are lobby and you folks engage in lobbying you have interest in legislation -- rules and regulations and restrictions. So. Here he is the puzzle at least for me now I might only be a voice a one but it's because of where rice served in the experiences that I've had. Why is it that common causes. Established legislative targets or objectives a somehow -- Holier then allow us you know sacred and someone else's as seen in a sinister light I mean I could say they wouldn't be fair but I could say. Exactly what you've said about every formal legislator who's now may be a lobbyist or an advocate of some sort we could see the same thing about Pamela modern karma cause private group. Won't open up its books won't share its member list. One -- have the press CNN has an interest in legislative matters stops some bill advance other bills I don't see any of it as evil yet you seem to characterize some salmon that. As evil or shady rock corrupt it's worrisome to yield and a -- this is exactly what the founding fathers anticipated. -- common interest. People who share common interest will come together and I knew in front of the government to either run with their own voice on what the voice of somebody else and in common cause I use -- your voice and -- presence does this put you one and the same level as. Every other shady lobbyist -- karma cause characterizes.

Well I would say there's plenty of lift spirits that characterize that's initiated -- spoke up improbable moment after it's it's it's.

You -- PIB let me give -- a moment to think about that can you stay with us for another segment. -- be great with the back hero with appear well lot of common cause after sharp break. Welcome back this is Tom -- you while listening to for parents for a money and succeeding WRKO I'll been joined by. Pam will month executive director of common cause him and I am having an ongoing jokes. With street got to -- view of the most recent episode incidents in which it public official goes off into different realm. And begins to practice and he develop a lobbying and consulting firm camp thinks that's raunchy calls to revolving -- I asked a question. What is and -- personable ordinary means a background expected to do I don't like the sense avoid -- and I don't like the busy body nature. A common cause other watchdog groups sticking their nose in an inquiring about salary. Just one quick example -- him a fight could we're gonna take a call to. But his quick example Scott hash out who used to be in Middlesex County DA attorney general excellent candidate for governor came close fell a little short. Always active in karma cause is now in the private sector believe practicing while I used god as an example I hope he's making a million dollars a year because I wish him success in -- he's making a million GOP's make -- two million whatever it is. I don't think it's an in my business could AM and good for Trevor in this case and good for. -- will -- to weather whatever PMs. Occupation and income is why do we get all caught up in this kind of what I call. Jealousy in boy arisen in intrusiveness. If it just it it. It drives me crazy particularly with a guy like travel I think he's demonstrated the skills and that's valuable in any arena. A hypocrite call from Erin in -- you are next with Tom Finneran and PM will bought from common cause.

I thought it without you I can't write on you know. Okay can I haven't you -- That pretty obvious -- a common cause that -- had fun meant exactly that and infecting need to -- model might have been -- because if it weren't for the low and -- have liberal publications like it and -- and -- troops would be. Even that's relevant that you actually acting has. I view groups like let. You're -- you're you're -- on when you have absolutely no authority. Well ready or not it that's fine you're entitled to that but that it it reflected -- that. Quote you -- opt out of every I'm in yeah. Yeah and also economic conservative paper as well not as much about Talbots certainly not help not exactly about liberal. Our thoughts are okay grant it out to get started cultivated that it nick at any time there it in. -- a tribute to talk about and felt like I'd say you're -- it I think that you know. Most people in the coming up probably don't know who you are hot hot at. -- the -- to replicate a that. Authority over what's appropriate what's right -- that I look at it that it but the point that I haven't actually kind eight is. I think and it hasn't groups like -- That half a lot of people who are willing to -- in -- you might happen at an example I got in the eighties -- now. I grew up around -- at that Eric let me active area and -- you know I would buy that yet -- at some point by. I think you know. But groups like the light detector at any big department official view at somehow get married at all act. You're not having that intense and that really acting. It late a lot of what other like -- I would think that it at --

Let me let me -- here in the front and and give chance and give him a chance a chance to respond to try to build on nearest point in in in one dimension I don't I don't really get to know I have to know how she grew up wish you grow up or anything else. But if she is like the rest of us kind of an ordinary middle class -- working class background. Clearly she is going to be under financial pressure as -- it's by definition you come from that background you don't have an inherited fund to fall back on. Bill weld took over rough took a full year off when he was running for governor it's still had reportable income. Hundreds of thousands of dollars why begrudge him that no this is the United States of America but the fact of the matter is the PM -- of the world the Tom Finneran in the world the alloy -- from Milton of the world don't have that capacity in if we denied them PM the opportunity to go Barack. Into the private realm and do certain things that they may have had a much of skill from you get it by definition be -- and diminished pool -- people who would even consider stepping into the arena any UN I would agree Pam -- dearth of credible. Persuasive candidates for every office.

Absolutely -- I think that. Aaron points to an important problem I think I would disagree with -- about what the cause of that problem. Certainly there's a very negative. Political culture and sir I comments. Added into that. I would say if we -- there. They'd find someone else and you and I both know that there plenty of plenty of other stories where no group is quoted and it's the same. Negative. And negative. Neck of the commentary about politics about politicians. Yeah that's a sort of a cut at -- say if we -- get someone else be it ethnic I don't like it anyway I didn't I am glad I don't think that I have ever. Personally. Attacked. Any politician we have. Stands we have 10000 dues paying members and Massachusetts. We take positions about revolving door issues for example we believe there should be -- to dole. Those 10000 people. Support that with the -- do. And we are promoting that issue I think that. Those 10000 are not alone in believing that that should be the standard or that other things like this. Security financial and should happen that there should be ethical standards which.

let me move to another call -- Q let me think -- for the Karla moved to another problem before we even do that I want to just point out that out of a membership at 10000 state -- a state representatives. District is 40000. One and the state reps so that's. -- that our lives but I could get 10000 not people and that the bridge fetus of a matter of Britney is a Massachusetts that probably be a 100000 people it's not. It's not.

Owners adaptive at 10000 owners.

Well that's good question and I you succeed your whole bunch of private groups out there that have -- as your group. Criticizes them as being privately funded as it is something sinister about it in euros which is privately funded is somehow noble let's go to Kevin Hammond and continue the conversation Kevin welcome difference -- with him while Lott and Tom Finneran.

Are we doing a good job Rachel thank you know. Really truly in it you don't what -- was state rep -- you can be forty games because you know about the status of people -- people appreciated it's also what a what are spoke to -- in the fox. It was your tired from state representatives. You know and -- book or use -- fox you're traveling vote is just all it.

A lot of a lot of people wanted to put in a box then closed the -- and call you know call -- of funeral well. And that's right I -- him -- actually PM made a point. A -- on the sounds reasonable when she points out to the fact that the Iraq out there people out you want to have a 23 I vehicle or not period of -- a permanent BN the enemy PM at least as the you know I think that the group the greats to say that's probably unconstitutional. And not wise because the point that it remain I think is well taken who the hell would go into politics today. With the atmospherics that we have I'm gonna give him a chance to respond.

Act. I think there's a lot of reasons that people don't know politics and that is certainly want. Absolutely. And I it have a lot of reasons. Two and one year cooling off period is probably not one of them. Particularly if you're talking about a state representative you have a job. You've got -- politics. And probably go back to that job whatever your -- that was before politics. The -- the issue raised before the break about. And good government groups sewer. Environmental groups and other groups. Those -- revolving door would absolutely I think anybody whether it's common going to comment are lobbying the state legislature or whether it's going somewhere else to. You can go to congress like Scott Harshbarger. -- somewhere else and use those guilt sets in with a different group of colleagues. And also -- that we talked about the have to different because different kind of -- I don't think anybody can have. An argument with. Using uniter skills to make the best case for your clients if there was none of this relationship issues around.

Let's go to Jamie and Hillary can Jamie thanks for confederates from with Pamela -- from common cousin Tom Finneran.

More apartment. I GB. -- And out of state members know that that's Soviet future funding and everything. -- pretty much right -- See that saying is notes are about all the other lobbying with the right make money and in. As soon -- the reason. Even exists. It is the one thing that has been mentioned that taxpayer dollars. And what I mean is. That. You know that series you have to keep our our legislators that become lobbyists. -- have conflicts of interest. Com is our taxpayer dollars go. You know I don't know what -- the first Carlos complaining about -- it. Have wherever -- related to in the legislature at the go -- catapult -- somewhere. But.

It's gotta pick a -- on the line here and figure -- RPM this happens I guess that's half.

That's already assailant that you know that's dark there has been brought up is not the taxpayer dollars is the reason -- to keep an eye on these people.

But but he -- his appoint -- Jamie would not talking about taxpayer dollars now -- Trevor Levy says yesterday's senate president traveling he says yesterday he's gonna open zone for an he's going it to the private technique could fall flat on his face and be unemployed and six months. The problem is if he's not unemployed if he actually succeeds which is supposed to be proud of the American success story entry for all of us. There's going to be people who jump all over him and say his success is sinister. His successes evidence of something -- his successes evidence of something. Corrupt and inappropriate and that is nonsense it's an insult. It's a slander it's a slur it's a liable it is nonsense and it's one of the reasons I keep coming back to a white people won't go into the public arena Jenny has yourself this question. Would you ride for a office an explosion just self to this type of aggression he hear it in my voice as I'm frustrated by one of seeing going on for too long. Or explosion itself to PM will moderate -- asking your whole series of questions that are really none of the -- business -- a lobbyist for a group that has an interest. You are an individual might be running for state rep by a state senator or you could be -- what the Senate president traveling in his firm trying to represent a variety clients there's nothing wrong with that it's legal let's.

The but it is. You know especially in going to private practice. But. It's. The you know what that's all reasons -- the you know these supposed who period is so that. You. To avoid the appearance of impropriety. Win. You have. A businesses going to get a contract of the -- opening your lobbying don't use it the old. I'm not say anything about everything yeah. You know as the former that a president or whatever. You have to avoid it for the hearing.

Any better he -- got what close at this point any contract any company that he's lobbying -- golfer contract. They're going to have to abide by the bidding laws that affect. Every single company that might have an interest -- I was -- him. -- powers of persuasion. Don't have any ability to compromise. The bidding laws if -- compromised you know what. He's in trouble for variety reasons. A variety reasons they have to play it straight in. Notion of an appearance of impropriety this is the -- that really just gets my -- that allows us to subject. Elected officials and hold -- to do is lowest the end of assessment of everything they do and it's crazy in its insulting. And it discourages people from --

Well I think very that there are ways around bidding -- Including earmarked. But. I think Jamie. Heir to the point to trying answered at defending the banking and very now. Which is that we do need people. Who are paying attention to what government. And take a different perspective we need the media regardless of Al. In negative -- and yet and I get frustrated with that you know I. Send out a press release of you know look at this great thing the legislature and that other person dead and nobody covers it completely and -- Frustrating on the other hand just think it would be -- did not exist.

Absolutely anywhere you and I've found common ground I'm not on the that's -- common ground about common gods can you imagine. I I agreed they have to be a human nature being what it is it is not somebody being -- vigilant being attentive offering commentary and criticism fine but it it it it's now in my opinion at a very different level in it's a sinister and suspicious assessment of every word and every action of people who for the most -- honorable and decent hardworking folks -- directed -- structure you can wait awhile welcome to parents forum.

I. I just ample. Good reasons for term limits politician because of -- Here is. People that he's been doing this without me is you know we've been on different and that is the biggest turn over. There is nobody. Little boy in the year -- they've got it.

While I know there are people who do believe in term limits who think that is one of the benefits of and I take issue with Eugene in this way term limits -- and a restriction on guests who. There restriction on -- of -- This -- if -- if your name -- was slew of selectmen in your town. And you had reason to admire and appreciate what he or she has done for the town things -- far. Five years 125 he has. Why should you be out officially denied the ability to continue to support and vote for and send back that good selectmen you certainly have the ability to disagree and vote for somebody else. Why would you should be denied it. Because this this concept of term limits you've got a good candidate in this is not an unusual situation. It's not just that because he or she is in office for five or ten years they they have. Some type of electoral control over the outcome they have.

And what I. They're air for a light that is not true that is at eight -- out.

But -- but at a local level where it helps Leo in the example averages and was what about your -- suppose -- she has been a good -- and the -- why should you be it sounds like the Soviet Union will give you fix that candidates from home you can vote but by the way this other candidate that you might really like and admire you can't vote.

Well I I think it pump -- actually has not been an advocate. For our term limits across the board by any chance that if we do supported for presiding officers. And personally I would consider. It's it was long enough that the organization has not it's certainly been a problem. And other states -- it has been a short term limit can have a lot of other. Up -- including. Having it sitting legislators with less institutional memory and a lot.

ED in the staff the staff know what I'm up unknown on accountable on approach that it becomes greater.

He does however I have to contradict -- because. Legislature is primarily voluntarily. An exclusive without the benefit. To Canada that's been defeated in election. And ten year. There are examples of how numbers 1234. Better defeated every two years. That's a different kind of -- I'm reading in most states. It's we don't we're getting tired -- on bond.

might be little different here in Massachusetts I would say this in response back we're gonna do two more calls Pam and I want to thank you before we even get to the break to stand with us a lot. My response back is there's an incumbent senators and reps who have had the absolute fear of god put them politically they may not obliged but they thought they win by fifty votes twenty vote a hundred votes that put I mean that is eight. Very chase inning experience fall roughly one and all of these to be perfectly honest but let's go right to dinner in Watertown -- natural Pamela Marten Tom Finneran.

Yes that I didn't know I don't think that you mention -- so yeah it isn't -- somebody's ability to make money based on that talent. Reminds you of the Soviet Union outright it can't have to do that kind of the end.

Much of this reminds me the Soviet you know we're -- going to give put restrictions on the number candidate who can't run and who can't run for office how much somebody in Iraq cannot spell out what they're gonna make what they're not going to make it it it it drove me crazy prolonged -- let him -- let --

I'll talk about the Soviet Union elections are actually very similar to the Soviet Union -- have one candidate and one candidate to vote for and that's it. And in about three quarters of the elections in Massachusetts that we talked a little bit about. Not one of the reasons for that but that is not the only reason I think it does the on the scope of our discussion to that. They are so it's definitely -- United States where there's all sorts of regulations about all sorts of things that is not communism. That is part of the American system we believe. I think we all believe that high ethical standards. We believe it shouldn't be able to feather your own enough that's what the one you're cooling off period is about to are you advocating for getting rid of that --

I actually would I never liked it I think I think it unconstitutional nobody will have a chat tested I don't think in a battle tested it's like lobbyists being restricted to a 200 dollar campaign contribution. Even though -- if PM well bot would run for president does senator and I want to -- thousand dollars like -- if I was a lobbyist I could only give 200 I think that's unconstitutional as well.

No I haven't tested.

It's it's been appalled and I'll know I I realize it.

Has been tested because even the US Supreme Court has has had -- nonsensical notion of the appearance of impropriety one last prop -- him you've been great to stay with -- Tim from reveal a -- Scalia on this subject -- for a.

Like some temporary. I think you might become -- service by having him on the line. But one thing I want that is focusing on transparency of government but -- with Valerie. What you get paid from comic cut them with -- at Ballard.

Hey -- limits on many of business. -- magnetic it's not a business.

Well predominant entire life and livelihood is focusing on what people made. And on the trans parent the of those in the public arena. I find it very troubling that he can't --

I'm still gonna be gallant and come to -- defense Tim what do you make a what do you may. I don't go out to the public everyday criticized everywhere Bennett yeah and people yeah it's like hello. Veterans forum -- the best and biggest.

Really did that through I apologize it. Well I'll take it violence adult and it felt okay well I would actually. I. I do not -- common cause has never criticize someone who are there are now. We have criticized the issue of the revolving door at that support it one year and two year period. Actually to your periods for -- where provisions. And terms I I think -- the relevant. In the sense that the other these nations that these non profits -- there are you know rich like crazy or making tons of money et cetera et cetera that is actually not true we are definitely. Shoestring operation. Very limited budget. I think that. And it -- is -- fairly comparable. Decade rank and file. Legislator which is probably a difficult for my family but at the sacrifice and I believe what we're dealing. Just that the members there are dealing. The company's immediate sacrifice significantly that they believe what they're doing.

I'm gonna -- public interview was noble important and should be compensated I -- in the fairest -- I want to thank him while much for coming on and stay with us even though she took the appropriate beating. No question about a -- yeah.