Michael Kranish

some audio for -- so we can relate to this they haven't found anybody out of said he's no good. -- enthusiasm my credit -- and you'd be there is. And by Curtis joins us from the Boston Globe's Washington bureau he's a correspondent there. So your full time it is wise go around following a senators are finding out what they're up to. Well we have Washington bureau and I'm one of about five or six reporters young cover the president congress the senators all sorts of things -- an awesome job and --

Doubt -- how many as Michael twenty years. And while his store I love this. Why continuity historical prospective it is disappeared from -- society particularly up political society reported that is fabulous three -- about a bedrock. Of credibility to what he has all the personalities who have come and gone all the issue fights. We gonna talk about it all.

Love all the crap over and and headquarters is missed out on that he has he has to say in Washington just desperate yes they are aware from Morrison boulevard but we really also have to talk to about your book about Thomas Jefferson. Flight from Monticello yeah that's coming later though I'm getting -- Joe little a little political stuff for the healthcare the political moment we're told is one of gridlock in Washington. Evan by using that as a cover story for his -- decision to leave the Senate. What's your take on gridlock and end the divisive in this in this story line is had a real storyline.

To a degree but -- the system is built to be very to folk school to get legislation through the whole idea was that they really wanna make it tough to founding fathers. Wanna make it tough to -- things happen so it's not that surprising that would be difficult. And if they were to a pass health care with only democratic votes that would have been pretty tough even if you love that idea. -- have been a tough way to start off with health -- have been no Republican support you just imagine the -- of an effort. To repeal of the following morning so I don't know what will happen now it's very difficult to predict total up with healthcare sort of like trying to predict. -- how many elements of Big Papi at this your for the Red Sox is just very difficult. To guess you know what happened now as they try to work together with the Republicans. Another health care plan but clearly it's going to be a tough road Michael in this time in which she described as an era of hyper pot.

And ship we were also referred to a golden age of Tip O'Neill Ronald rag and after the debates of the day they get together for poker -- drinks the back and forth. If it is that an accurate historical rendition. And if so when did things go off the rails where everybody not just curses at each other and it's a 24 hour chorus. It.

It may be more partisan today but certainly over the twenty years I've covered Washington there's always been the sound you -- partisan divide people voice that is more partisan used to be. What has happened in the past as is often times and in the end people do come together on certain pieces of legislation. For example. How one of the first things -- cover was the presidency of the elder George Bush and he complained that Democrats you don't wanna see anything of his get through. Eventually he was able to work on all sorts legislation through and clean air disabilities act on the budget and so forth. And in his own party -- after saying wait a second you're being sold out to moderate yup and then he didn't win reelection to that and other reasons. So maybe that's part of -- lesson people -- if you work together than your own party may come after you. You know -- they will work together on some things that jobs still yesterday. I wasn't as big as a lot of Democrats wanted but it is something they got some. Promote and both for including Scott Brown Soviet -- you see how many other pieces legislation Scott Brown wants to support.

You're sure you sayers reading a story last week devoted during the first bush years and how they were portraying the Democrats as the party of no. And it it lets you see that a lot of these tactics and a lot of the claims of problems are standard procedure.

Right and you can go back in American history in this is often the case shall have no one party say the other party the party of no or president runs against congress to tell but the opposition party. So -- is -- common thread throughout American politics but you know even during this time -- hyper partisanship to look back to 2008 when they had to bail out bill. This is one of the most controversial pieces legislation I ever covered I was there in congress covering it. It's a camera 2008. And yet they got bipartisan support to do it because basically these -- both parties thought this was very important idea of everyone. From both parties complaining up bailing out banks and so forth but at that time. They did come together there was this feeling at that time that if we don't do this it'll be much worse. Who knows that's the case but they did come together Michael crashes I -- is a correspondent for the Boston Globe based in Washington DC covering all federal matters down there. Barack Obama himself will be plus in terms of his first year. He our assessment again a twenty year observing your assessment of president Barack Obama's first year in the White House. I don't know like would grade folks who give them but I I'm guessing that when he says B plus that's when he said that down he's thinking of stopping the country from going to -- Great Depression I think when he looks back and I've heard talk about this and others. In the back of the first year they see that as the primary accomplishments. It's a little bit of a hard sell of people are looking at 10% unemployment all the problems we have to -- health care other problems he's had. But he is probably looking at it that way he's managing two wars and he's -- Gay --

Our perception of somebody who covers were you surprised by the speed of his clock Cendant. The calamity finds himself in them.

You know I guess it is little surprising that diet might be my guess is that his instinct was to try to be more bipartisan. And that the democratic leadership convinced him that look we've got the votes to do exactly what we want and a lot of people in the party. For example want the public option which didn't seem like it was ever gonna pass but who really wanted it wanted to fight for it. So I think one of the great losses for President Obama was the death of Senator Kennedy in the sense that Kennedy despite being known as the liberal lion. You know was also noted the last -- a couple of decades for working with Republicans on key issues. And -- Republicans have said to me and others that they felt that if Kennedy had lived that he would have convinced Obama. Not just do is strictly partisan version of health -- to try to come up with some kind of compromise. Which -- this is what they're now doing so I think he missed his counsel I agree with you might ought to make I think Senator Kennedy had the ability. To talk that crazy liberals off -- crazy. An oft times politically untenable positions he could go into the liberal caucus and say we've gone as far as we can it's either this something compromised somehow with -- matched -- Are it's -- And I think only to Senator Kennedy would those liberals listen everybody else would be seen as a -- Well that's I you know he did -- some comprises with for example -- President Bush on No Child Left Behind. So clearly had a record of doing this -- Orrin hatch -- has said many times and maybe this is just political talk but that he felt that if Kennedy had -- that they would have gotten something done on. On health care now involved you know to be fair Kennedy was there for a long time they didn't get healthcare and I think if Kennedy were here he would say. Yeah there are some chances early on perhaps even the Nixon administration where he might have done something -- to get a copy guy so. He sort of changed as well he wanted to that he wanted to even more and you know I think he said at one point that. He could've gotten something out much earlier but he -- wanna compromise and later on he realized to a -- learn our lesson she did learn those lessons as well let me try to pass those along.

Most people I think we're looking your job as a Washington correspondent covering their what's going on in the capital every day and think what a miserable existence do you consider how do you feel. No I mean involved with that -- politics every day.

Well I grew up in Washington and then down when I applied the Boston Globe -- a quarter century ago I said I wanna work in the Washington bureau has spent. Five years up here in New England covered New Hampshire covered Boston. But that was always my ambition I think it's a dream job what I was just gonna say what -- dream job you wanna be where the action is as frustrating as this can be. The dynamics of the personalities and politics stuff collisions attic where people on people in Boston I mean it's sort of the equivalent of -- Red Sox people Boston are greatly interested in politics it's it's the other major sporting town. As you know better than I do obviously -- and that that's something that's always been great -- gloves very supportive of having a Washington bureau. Because of all their interest in what goes on nationally so we have a lot of obviously great national figures from Massachusetts. Who have been there and -- we've had several run for president not successfully and you know a lot covered Washington. Let down yeah I'd I think it's a great job easier at the front porch of history -- great -- great interest history obviously I've written a book registry. By just history as it unfolds so I've had a chance to cover the White House cover congress and tell watching things develop that now people you know right about -- district.

I just wanna be clearer in your perception of the divide do you think Obama's problem is not that. That is the congress is too divided but that he is reach too far with his proposals which has made it impossible for him to pull enough people on his side.

I think it's probably a little bit of both let me just tell you have a story about one -- my first things like -- in Washington to give some perspective. When I first came I covered catastrophic health care insurance there was a measure that was overwhelmingly bipartisan approved. -- provided catastrophic health care insurance for older Americans essence -- buying it here twenty years later but it was a tax on those people who would benefit. From this plan had wide bipartisan support more than three votes in the house is our call it. And yet. After it was action -- year there was a lot of outcry and even among those people who are most benefited from it. And he was repealed a year later so that's why I -- or in the program that if they had strictly partisan health care. You have to wonder what happened there would have been an effort the next day by I was just I know I haven't. But that they were sort of picking way out of today that there whatever have been very controversial but given experience a catastrophic health collectors say it was -- within a year and so it never did. Because that was talked about the time a sort of won the first steps to having. National health care insurance so that's just a little with a perspective that I bring I know that even if somebody starts with even great bipartisan approval. You know the health care measure obviously can take years to really go into effect. To the trying to work on something now that you really have to build you know support pretty broadly for -- you're obviously interest and history you may address --

book that you've recently -- the name of the book his flight from Monticello. It involves a relatively obscure. Aspect of Thomas Jefferson's life one of the most widely revered in. Widely written about presidents of all time. I'm curious just give us it kind of a broad sketch as to how this interest develop tell you went about it tend to and then we'll continue the conversation sure. Well this is book I wrote does just about this month it's called flight from Monticello Thomas Jefferson out war. And I'll be speaking about tonight by the way the Boston Public Library 6 o'clock it's open to the public of people interested in hearing more about this. And I got this because I'd written a lot of lengthy presidential candidate profiles for the Boston Globe about John Kerry. About Romney were my job and part was to go back.

In the history and talk about the history of that candidate in their family has a lot times archives. And after the 2004 campaign -- John Kerry thought to be interesting to look at tickets a technique that apply to part of history had been interest and always an interest in Jefferson. And basically come upon a nugget in that nugget is that Benedict Arnold the traitor. Let a fleet of 27 ships with 1600 men. Into Virginia five years after the declaration of independence. When Jefferson was governor Virginia and this caused Jefferson -- to -- Richmond eventually other British forces came to Virginia and Jefferson had to flee Marcello itself. So from that nugget I've basically ask myself as a reporter what happened how to Jefferson. The author declaration of independence get in this position five years later -- was running -- and the British and I just want them.

about the story and fascinating situation because here's a guy image turned out to be a major political problem for him that some people thought he was a coward. And he was in a situation where he was good you know basically knuckle down with the ship but turning and running. And later he was able to become president send him that compartmentalized in terms of the perception of felt. But Jimenez as an historical figure so we'll talk more about a Michael pressure from the Boston.

it's time man -- six AD WR hill little history spun. Did sell your guests tell it's not a privilege we have micro -- works for the war over there. Washington bureau for twenty years and he's got a new book out. Flight from month to cello.

Thomas Jefferson at war and we've just been taken -- Perino I don't know why you're interest in the stomp the -- wanted to know. About the process of collecting the information to build -- right -- this kind of book.

I think we have so many intelligent and and well informed readers I mean -- listen to sub -- as well as readers and I think an awful lot of people. Heaven the mind the dreams someday of writing a book about a historical episode historical character. Whatever might be a favorite teacher -- one now -- and mr. speaker you mr. speaker have a good -- And death -- I think most people are intimidated by the process it seems so vast media stat indeed nobody wants to be prepared professionally embarrassed themselves so is asking Michael off the how do you go about preparing. So that you can then take pen to paper and write this book you'll be discussing the book by the way tonight 6 o'clock at the Boston Public Library. Books will be available and obviously don't engage in some Q&A it was again I learned literate. Boston audience which is a great great thing for a flight from Monticello.

So there you you described you re doing a ton of Reading taking notes detailing what would you tell blogging of information and at the part of history that I think is fascinating is when. You have those moments where you feel like you can actually touch the people who were there that it becomes a real was there are magical moment for you really powerful. Touchstone and they give more able to put your hand on whether intellectual or physical that really made you feel close to Thomas show.

For some that's a great question there was actually part of the research for this book at some point I took off some time from working for the globe and I had a fellowship at Monticello. And for that time they let me stay and a little cottage just down the hill from Monticello itself and I live right across from the Jefferson library. This such a wealth of material that I dependent on. And basically staying the store cottage on this over the mountain for a month. I sat there and I basically tried very hard not to. I'd be involved in the regular day -- world so I didn't read the newspaper this is very typical for me as a reporter asked not to reduce paper didn't newspaper did not watch TV. Actually don't misinterpret disagreed with the bridge to -- gazette of the 7080 selected sort of soak up the time period. Com this may sound corny but I didn't try to listen only to music that Jefferson liked you totally legitimate mershon -- I really did just sort of like an you know if you're on vacation. It takes and every three or four days -- may be more to sort of get away from the everyday world that you're in. And sort of meld into that world maybe at the lake in New Hampshire is coming down takes some time. And I sort of knew that because this was in the you know after the heart of the primary season 2000 it was over I did this and before the general election campaign. So I need some time to step away a little bit and and that's what I wanted to do. So are really tried to just focus on that world and because I was at Monticello. Every deck had sort of the early walking Jefferson's footsteps -- a went to the house. Constantly to much -- sort of walk through the runs and try to soak it up and of course has spent a lot of time reading Jefferson's letters hero it 19000 letters. In his lifetime I don't know if all right 90000 emails -- isn't that incredible credible that doesn't -- really can get a sense of what he was thinking and talking go day by day. You know one of his letters for example I was there one night and it was incredibly stormy night just windows rattling the number three it's coming down thunder lightning. And as a -- and that's storm and really there's no one else around but the security guard comes -- occasionally. It reminded me of a letter that I was reading of one of these letters he says what what majesty to rewrite their above the storms department Marcello suggesting we know was there a moment maybe that was that moment that's current good story to I recall from -- visit to Monticello is that those 90000 letters you made reference to that he had some types of machine that to -- so we have copies now right but he had -- machine that actually duplicated his hand. His hand right he did it's it's it's very well hello wrote while he might already sort of if you can imagine I'll try to just crazy but contraption it's a device that had a sec has two pens and it. She -- broad 110 a second hand. We do the exact same pen strokes in various virtual -- away. Does right there is right in the sort of a writing to ask you can go in the sight of Monticello dot org and I believe they have up image of it. But it really is extraordinary device he wanted to. You he would write drafts of his letters we wanted to save a copy of these letters -- so lot of dollars that we have a Jefferson's aren't necessarily letters. That we found they wrote to someone else but the copies that he had saved thank goodness so very important that he didn't you judicious in history. He actually wanted to shape history there's no question he would one of -- I write about in the book is that he talked to other historians. Other folks who won -- right district revolution. And he's basically you know what's been basically back in the eighteenth century would talk to them and say you know here's actually happened during the invasion spent a lot of his. Leader years really almost until the day he died as I described in my book. Trying to shape explain why he acted the way he did during the invasion why he took flight. What the problems were with the militia with the navy. All the things that happened immediately Dili was concerned about how it's not a mystery what a treasure trove of material for somebody like you who's determined to do the research and average David McCullough speak eloquently about. The mass historical society in their treasure trove of Adams correspondents. So let's get to though they need the subject of the Jefferson's flight from Monticello and can you give us the background and who's involved and what the heck is going on and how is it that a guy he has. August -- previous Thomas Jefferson has literally flying through the woods I assume on us back. Two to escape capture that is exactly what happens and this is it seventy anyone it's almost five years after declaration of independence. And the traitor Benedict Arnold who Jefferson had once thought would be a great man for the revolutionary side had defected to the British. And he went to new York and he talked with the British commander there and it was agreed that he wouldn't. Command a fleet of 27 ships with 1600 meant to invade Virginia he did so. Jefferson. Was given a message that there was a fleet in the bay but he didn't know that it was British she thought maybe it's French allies may be it would be a foraging party he said. And -- through several crucial DC did not call out fully the militia he said there was quote no intelligence couple days later. But Arnold was making his way under miles up the James River and eventually -- Got there in Jefferson had to flee. That you don't Jefferson's -- later said there was a white man left enrichment. But Jefferson for three days is running around outside of Richmond. On horseback not the way we think of the author declaration of independence is sort of this quiet shy man he's he's running around under.

System by military aides say put orange here put papers there. Twice he takes his family and young children further up the James River just ahead of the British to to protect them may save their lives certainly possibly save them. From being captured. And then two other British forces come under Virginia. And one of those forces -- eventually -- heads further relent in Virginia the legislature Jefferson go to Charlottesville by the brewers try to escape the British. Jefferson -- thinking it's far enough away to be safe. But eventually the British make it all the way to Monticello just minutes ahead of them. He does police a lot of the book that I write about the sort of setting the stage I have a lot of -- characters -- developed throughout the course the book explaining how did you get to this point. That he had to flee Monticello and that's what the -- you have a safe room or any hiding place in Monticello to be able to slip under some -- didn't he he thought this April would basically be the fact that he was on the -- an 850 feet above everything else that he could see far ahead. Of the British soldiers coming. And he thought the Charles that was so far inland in -- two years earlier wrote an Op Ed about this today in today's Boston Globe about this. He had does support the idea of having British -- prisoners sent to Charlottesville. Two years or or does he thought Charles goes so far away from any possibility. Our British invasion thought they would never make -- that for -- if they ever tried to that you know the men of Virginia would stop them in their tracks. I mean he was wrong in fact they did make it always Charles though he was governor so on. He had thought he had clearly thought that this would be a safe haven and it was not so how long was how long was he away from Monticello this flight from the -- And we did we did he go and how long did you stay away. Well what happened was its June 4 71. And very prosaic in his memorandum book he makes -- British horse came to Monticello. That's the way he described it did the events of that day all that's fairly cryptic and -- well I mean that's that's the meticulous way he was and I dispute why he noted everything if you wanted to know how much. You know he bought on a certain -- books and C using those same memorandum books I was able to retrace his journey which I don't think really has been done before in detail. Of the exact flight that he took he fled first to a friend's house over the mountains and then eventually went to another plantation you don't call poplar forest. In southwestern Virginia just before he fled he did not take a third term as governor Virginia his -- just expire the second that term. And he did not take the third term he said it wasn't prepared by my life to be a military leader he thought someone else be better prepared the problem was a lot people Virginia. They didn't know that he was no longer governor and be there was no -- governor one of Virginia's darkest hours so Jefferson. Has vacated the governorship is in flight and the legislature has also inflate they've headed over the brewers to a town called stand. And then they launch an investigation Jefferson's conduct X one of the little known things in American history the legislature wants investigation into American conduct. Jefferson believed it was none other than Patrick Henry who had given that famous cry of give me liberty or give me death some years earlier. He thought Andrea was behind the effort to investigators conduct. Jefferson spent weeks composing a reply to the questions raised in this investigation volleys at the sub promote plantation of his. Com fortunately for Jefferson later there was a victory Yorktown Virginia -- legislature was willing to basically let bygones be guidelines by gods but Jefferson wanted to defend himself. He did a lawyer and he wanted to stand up and legislature and say. I've been accused of this on my honor I wanted to -- myself and he stood up in December of 71. And give a detailed explanation of why he did what -- what he did so I talk about that. -- giving his own defense wasn't till twenty years later. -- he became president.

Michael Chris -- from the Boston Globe his new book is called flight from Monticello Thomas Jefferson that war. They were finding out about a unique period in Jefferson's life in his career. When he was forced to flee British soldiers coming into. -- to get them five years after the end of the war there was that kind of porous this to us still the war ended but it wasn't over conflict wasn't over.

Right conflict wasn't over you have a lot of a major snow 7076. Fireworks go off independence was declared well. At the time 1776. The war was really being engaged it was not anything but over. And what -- truck is here's five years later and Jefferson himself. Who helps set this revolution emotion. Is in flight and down this is Europe can now fighters into the war. When Yorktown occurred October of 71. That effectively ended the combat in Virginia basically ended the -- to listen to tears after that. That peace treaties were -- was still going on there are some of them the British -- wanted to continue on very strongly. After Yorktown -- things basically began to wind down. Com after that at some other engagements so -- yes the war went on for. -- number of years after a 77 what a great. Great talked about eight and and in an incredibly interesting American historical figure. Thomas Jefferson tonight 6 o'clock Michael crash Boston Public Library discussing this book. The flight from Monticello amazing.

Very MySpace -- good luck with -- and sent back to you read finishing up the book -- go back to the office in Washington I'll be -- do little -- and then go back to -- Washington yes very good luck with the book hopefully generate up there with game changing terms sales. And I will stay in touch with this this is Thomas -- six AB WRKO.