Charter Schools part2

680 W large scale we're talking education Jamie gases here from the pioneer institute obvious Nelson. Filling in today forced -- morning. And now we're talking about these these for the whole educational reform fight Charter Schools story in the -- today which is really. That's quite astounding in a part of an ongoing story over what's going on in Gloucester with a school that was approved their that was according to emails. Approved for political reasons that had nothing to do with the quality of the application for charter school and lately we've been hearing news that. The records on that whole transaction are no longer available they were destroyed or her deliberately lost through it to what's going on with --

Yeah I mean as I mentioned last judged to charter approval -- cycles. One in 2008 and four Brockton proposed school Indian. In Brockton. And now this warning clustered. The board of dead and you know secretary revel have been sort of playing games with. Independence of the board of education and so again what was ordinarily assertive. Independent merit based charter approval process has been muddied and so there. In 2008 they rejected -- charter school that the Department of Education. Said should haven't been opened an authorized and then to correct for that in 2009. They opened are planned to open this Gloucester charter school which probably shouldn't have been. Open because it's not a wasn't a poor or use a poor quality and a application but they did it for political reasons and some. In the inspector general -- released report yesterday and now reveals -- it's even more complicated because looks like code officials within this state Department of Education. May have destroyed some of the records are rounded and that the commissioner wasn't exactly. Altogether. Honest about his role in these guys must be angling for a job in East Anglia publicly mute people would destroy the climate -- data. Yet I think you know the thing it's a shame about it is again this is not that long ago we had what was regarded as the finest charter authorization process in the country and it's been. Really damaged the credibility has been damaged and it in its. It is really the fly in the ointment now because -- There's an article in the globe today about it there's this ongoing investigation by the inspector general. About charter authorization and were trying to get our act together for this. -- listing in to make ourselves eligible for video perhaps three year for 400 million dollars from the federal government.

Can't really be this that I always should try to look at the other side of things and that did this CE. Could be construed as the -- so perfect it's like a mystery story line is that Deval Patrick people are to get to all Patrick. And drive him out of the race for governor because the circumstances of this -- so ridiculous that it's hard to imagine. Debt competent mature people are running the government so -- is there any other side of the story any rumblings of made -- a -- of people are out to get devolved politically and that's why -- how did this get released now the timing of what's going on in the state is amazing you've got a front page story today about Charlie Baker. Kick -- you know a lot out of Deval Patrick in fundraising we've got a poll yesterday -- Scott Brown within striking distance of winning winning Ted Kennedy's old seat. We've got it today to support that story line in the energizing of the GOP nationally you've got to key. Democratic senators the retiring from their -- or you're not running for reelection. Because they're so scared of facing the voters there's this crumbling world for Democrats right now that this story is part of that it's hard to imagine it's all real it.

It is still a little bit amazing candidate Charlie chip you and I did a peace at last spring for education max which is an education journal. Published by just Stanford University he called accountability overboard as sort of highlights are outlines all of the sort of fumbling that's gone on in the last three years but it. It's amazing because Massachusetts is should be -- because our successor academic success in the success of the reform law from 1993 we should be poised. To you know take continue to just succeeding go to the next level but has just been it's been like keystone cops are songs.

I have -- we've been poisoned by politics over good policy right. And that's the irony for all the people been brainwashed into thinking the Democrats are are the good government people and the pro education people. Well we have his liberal minority Liberal Democrats. Destroying educational opportunity it's it's. But it incredibly shocking to me that that's what's gonna.

Yeah it is all surprisingly I guess I mean really between the success of the of reform law and all the leadership there is provided in the ninety's in the quality of the law and the schools and those standards we have here I mean. He really should have been the stars were perfectly aligned for Deval Patrick in the legislature just can't continue to. Keep driving student achievement academic achievement for the really you know be. The six sort of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory it's really kind of remarkable if you could give a prescription for the political leadership for the body politic in Massachusetts with regard to Charter Schools no education more broadly construed. What would you tell -- month. What would be the top three things or the the we have objectives that we should have tried to accomplish in this statement -- It yes a good question obviously the first thing is really better quality of the leadership I really again you can't give us. You know. Bill weld and Tom Birmingham and mark Roosevelt incinerator and enough credit in the ninety's equality of the leadership at the top. Really matters because it did -- improves the quality of a law making it and it sets the tone. That did they're gonna pick. The interest of the students over the interest of the adults and that's really what happened in the early nineties it was a concerted effort to make structural changes. In district accountability. In student testing teacher testing highly progressive funding formula and then these innovative. Charter Schools that have really been kind of breaking the mold of of the conventional school districts but I think. You know there there are elements of this law there are this bill that are being debated today that are really good -- uplifting part of it is good trying to drive in some. Of the innovations from church schools and urban districts that did this in the bill. Are good the problem is is that it's just. There's all these poison pills he -- trying to change the gold move the goalposts on Charter Schools are. -- cripple them in some ways to bid is also seems like it's just part and parcel of the of the sort of legislative process without the leadership.

You're welcome and honest process 6172666. -- succeed in this conversation is yours as well Jamie gas from the pioneer institute -- Nelson is here in Tim here on WR given morning.

I'm all white and were evident this fast I heard you very impressive. I I take that education is my soap pocket soapbox issue that I'm so very happy to hear people. Finally. Tightly -- god partly explain which legally not education it's a political football children. The -- right hey but students each I want to write a book. This is -- children are treated in most not all most public schools there our butts in seats. They are ABA I'm not a there -- money. And what happened to this school as long as they're not wheeled out impurities. It does not. Matter. I have worked in schools boast our -- I I've wished to put enough debate. But teachers were respected him why didn't lobbied cherished. I got to school art are not very quickly anybody can be hired as a teacher it doesn't matter all Horry checked my -- It doesn't matter what matters is -- total lie.

But you know I -- is worse than that -- that if you -- let me make a -- and I want you to respond to -- if you -- good teacher. You were in a situation more all the forces in the environment are working against you.

They actually aren't you now you can not cloture -- I Ike -- I can talk to for the next two hours a story that I've seen happen other teachers and myself. -- Who loves and respects and honors and churches their child should be allowing their kids into just any. Our public school you should be investigating. Most kids should be out of the public schools that's -- wait -- this beast. Mr. Robert it might be at the school will it be your children the same way tie him. Abuse their child prostitutes.

Trimble we'll give me a favor when you develop some strong feelings on us what you call us back -- and I thank you Tim for the call hey you know oil and by the way I think usual referred of them is a Democrat schools not a government schools -- public schools because. The democrats' own and operate these schools if there's one place where you could look and see what democratic politics create it is their brainchild the --

What -- Jamie registered for pretty cynical view from somebody who I sure was a teacher gave you specify you sure it was in the school. The teacher's attitude. Public schools versus Charter Schools is very different saluted teacher and part charged will give a more sanguine analysis of what's going on.

Yeah I mean I think you did I mean the first call me just say I think that'd -- a teacher unions probably the most important work that can be done in a society you do that teachers of all in Charter Schools public schools they really many of them are really well intended they do care. A lot about children I think it is really important emphasized but I think that there's there's no question that there is this kind of hostility towards excellence that you find. Throughout education more generally one of the better examples of it uses it in the in the eighties there's a guy named Hymie Escalante who was. Bob Bolivian emigre and he came and taught at Garfield high school -- Los Angeles he's able to -- an extraordinarily high heat -- percentage of minority kids to pass that EP calculus -- Exam which is advanced placement -- calculus exam. Did he was ended up being driven from school district to school district because he worked. On Saturdays he had kids sort of sign an agreement to come to after school for hours and hours and practicing practicing. Yeah there's no question that the the folks in the turner school have that kind of -- may Escalante approach to it where they. Their job is to make sure that those kids to their kids meet the standard and and get over the hurdle so that they can succeed not just in high school but are able to succeed. In college and beyond.

Steve you're on WRKO Cheney gas from the pioneer institute hi Steve.

I. My. My point is is that Massachusetts schools but it's instead. Two years ago endorse second in the world. On the USO I believe between eleven and thirteen. Yet Massachusetts. Paid to have this. Tested it at worst separate country and we respected in the world I think they're doing a fine job. Maybe not as much -- requirement but all the -- older communities served in the money from the public schools they don't take.

Special the other -- they steal them internationally exactly kids well. It's amazing how we only are they take the money and they create good schools it's terrible what.

Don't they basically. They don't take that they take too much money they don't take special needs.

It looks like Jamie because I think these are particular ridiculous points you're making about their common ones let's let Jamie Rose Bowl you know again I think demeaned I think there's this notion that somehow. And -- Charter Schools are public schools they're very much public schools are accountable to the board of education you couldn't be more about public institution and being accountable to the -- event. But I think that unit you know in addition to that the you know DC and you know date of this notion that somehow. School districts have a right to children and I think is absurd it did children belong to the parent especially when they're doing a bad job what they did exactly exactly and you know the caller is correct there are fewer special Ed kids -- in the you've -- within the Charter Schools but there are also much higher percentages of pour in minority kids in the Charter Schools what's not as though there's some kind of no cherry picking or sort of cleaning the best students off the top mean. A lot of these highest performing Charter Schools are minority majority. Schools and their outperforming the kids in west.

And that's the thing that all these people like that last caller who give the union talking points. They ignore the fact that you can go into the worst areas of the country. Are one of the reasons why on average Massachusetts may do well is because we have a lot of highly educated communities were kids are going to school having come out of homes. With high powered parents who by the end of the power of their environments. Are delivering their kids educated when they show off to school the first day. The challenges in the minority communities and inner cities or educational holds them in permanent. Poverty and there are public schools in the form of charter school sitting in in two years. In three years take kids who are gang members and have them performing like say they live in Lexington -- swamps that. And that is what you should be falcon is focusing on. Not this crappy gifts from the teachers you.

It's and I would -- in perhaps the heretical question. As to whether we are spending too much money on so called special needs kids because that money is taken away from the vast majority of other kids who were trying to --

Absolutely that's one of the problem with public schools is they've embraced a lot of policies that are constructive in terms of doing good education. Jamie always great to have you here thank you Jamie gas in the pioneer institute thanks so much time and all right we'll see you again soon we will track what's going on is the vote today and they use this center.

Gonna be taking up the bill today and in the next couple days -- having the debate so we've been their -- the deadline is to try to get a bill on the governor's desk by the middle of next -- they're they're operating -- a pretty tight -- thank you Jamie we'll talk GM -- Nelson is in for Tom will continue on 680 WRKO.