Suing the Turnpike

Welcome back W yeah. Hey thank you for coming on so long what's happened yes it was all about. Well you have this was our first that time really in court to talk about the case and we got into. You know looks telling the judge what's the Americas work and at the basis of our case and how much. You know the fact that the -- peers over the last three years have taken a half a billion dollar hit. And that that we that we need some security to make sure that they in the event we have a recovery to be money to pay port. And let it affect it the real estate is up for sale. And at the in the legislature's thinking about gobbling up the authority and turning it into something else and we just want to have assurances. That that whatever it is that that the liability from this case if we're successful build we covered.

Our -- separate from your your motion to freeze the assets of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Tend to make sure we'll be able to pay after you win. You had the chance to give your arguments on the case. And yet it just it sounds like and you know I'm no lawyer but it sounds like a very powerful case and I think there's -- this tendency to think. That when you're suing the state of Massachusetts you know already Iraq and I get very far because of the that the difference in size. Between you with your with your class that of toll -- we've been getting screwed because they're diverting our money away for another purpose against the state ever once as a journalist but as I sat there watching the judge listen you. I felt like this was a compelling argument you were delivered.

Well you know idea I think that the but you know what there's been a lot of you know web the other side. Has been very quick to call -- frivolous. And I think that really is the -- the reason why we that we had to resort to a lawsuit is they have not respected the rights of the toll -- to be treated with decent respect that when you charge them a fee for using their roadways the money you're charging them should go to give them safe inoperable roadway and not be taken to -- pay for -- decisions of the Big -- which is the responsibility of all of us and -- fundamental constitutional. Restriction. On the the power of government to take an exemption from a that's why we fought the revolution and at the final -- quintessential American. Principle which began right here in Massachusetts it was the sons and daughters. Of Massachusetts that said look no taxation without representation and when you take a free and you'd do different things other than providing the service you are taxing people and that's why we shed blood over that issue that we had a constitution wrote it.

I -- just complete the loop on that you you can't give taxing power to unelected authority. And if if you're collecting tolls and using them for something else that becomes a de facto tax. And if that's being done by and people are elected officials. And IE the the turnpike authority then you're right that's what your argument is that this is unconstitutional.

They can do anything they want I mean do quickly he owes Sam Adams the power of -- the power to destroy. It is the most fundamental economic power that a tyrant wheels wheels is the power to take your property to use it whoever they want.

Well we have one of the great destroyers here how hot a gentle -- better idea when the -- turnpike attorneys argued back. That the legislature created this system Mattingly is back in 96 this may NHS mass highway system. Are consciously the legislature said okay tolls from the -- going to be used to pay some of the costs associated with this monster project known as the Big Dig. How did the judge respond in your opinion your good courtroom guy you can read body English unlike what was the judge's response to determine -- attorneys. --

He was specifically focused in on that argument and he asked me specifically what you say you about the fact that the legislature. You know -- this statute and so therefore it doesn't mean that they can go to what and the entity that question is the legislature has done as several times and has. A -- statute citizens given authorities the certain. Agencies. To do things. But the courts in policing this the constitutional. Power to Texas -- it's been very diligent. In policing it and saying look if the -- is not her feet but in fact this is something else to detection may have struck it down the legislature empowered the city of Boston. To tax big buildings for extra fire protection and the city when pass an extra fee for that and the SEC and a very famous case the Emerson. College gays in 1984 struck it down. They even know legislature to do -- had to do that we have brought another agreement. If it's called the constitution institutions overseas how we're supposed to exercise that legislative power you can't empower people to impose -- some people you're calling a feat that is actually -- if the legislature only we can protect ourselves to our elected representatives.

It's got kind of a circular argument to suggest that you the legislature would have the power to do this and that because they've done it. It was off automatically okay.

Well let me -- the legislature -- foot jump off a bridge or tunnel -- would you do it -- the the the constitution. Says that you know -- establishes the separation of powers and the limits of each of those branches at the genius of our government and the legislature can overstepped their -- now I say that that the legislature did not mandate. And that legislation that created the image yes which which unfortunately incorporate to a incompatible systems -- paved road system called the turnpike and then not -- system I 93 and they put those two things together and they told they turnpike authority who only has the power to charge of seat -- you cooperate -- and take care but obviously something had to give but they never said and they couldn't say. That you could take tolls from the paid part in which you're charging. Told players to use that service and use it to pay for the defected two thirds of the she uses that system are using 993 for freight and -- because -- that -- prayer is subsidizing the use that system. By other people.

had half a second we've got pause for our news right but would it tell us so what the name of the website is before you go. Because you don't need to get more people into your class action everybody who pays or has paid tolls on the turnpike should be joining in on your website so they can be part of a class action and add more weight to what you're doing so give us that domain again. Equity dot com toll equity dot com or which has selectmen coming up on 680 WRKO. Voters in Massachusetts are frustrated all the time. At this sense that there's destroying going on in their there -- Symbian summit where the recipients of it and every once awhile something concrete comes along to demonstrate. Ways in which we are getting screwed. James Whitman the famous attorney is providing one of those opportunities for us to to have clarity and that is because anger western suburb commuters who. Hate that they've been paying a toll that's been being used to subsidize the big day. Now have a legal lax to run and that is that chance says it's unconstitutional. For them to be collecting that feed it's meant for the the turnpike. And using it to take care of the Big Dig debt so everybody needs to get onboard and join in on this lawsuit if if the if you are a toll -- If you do -- your earlier have in the past if you have records or whatever the parameters are can't you want everybody on board right.

Actually anybody who pay the toll is -- is eligible to join. As a beneficiary. You know the fast lane users are actually get great documentation receipt holders but even if you don't have your -- they'll be other ways to be able to establish. You know you're used and we'll do things and a fair and -- get forever able to make a recovery which we're certainly going to try very hard to do in order to remedy this wrong.

But part of being able to impact the court it seemed to me yesterday. They were talking about how big your class. Of people was who were part of this lawsuit. And you're about 1700 people joined right now but that number based on that the number of users really should be in the tens of thousands shouldn't.

No actually -- actually there are tens of thousands of users I guess there were 93 million told transactions last year their -- 800000. Fast -- accounts so but everybody is eligible and the class. They -- during the class certified of course it would take care of everybody nobody will be excluded. A one way the other the trust allows people to come in. And get a cup in rather than be a nameless faceless member of the club class they -- come in with a name and to tell this story now a lot of the people that have joined are not just individuals. Or being burdened you know to the tune of twelve or fifteen or 1600 -- year -- told as your regular working commuters but they're also companies. We have both several companies that have a large truck -- a limousine companies cap companies that which they're being killed by these -- and employing lots lots of people we have one company -- upwards of 30000 dollars a month in tolls. For all of their trucks and it'll kill -- told double.

you asked on behalf of the the class and that the group. About 300 million dollars in damages and I think that's based on an estimate of some some worked on bio -- a local college professor. Judge Smith judge Herman Smith has the judge in the case. He seems to at least according to the globe report. Have kind of scoffed at that figure and settle -- I don't care how many plight of you have there's no way they're gonna -- 300 million -- 1700 point that's. What do you react to that.

I don't actually corrective courses would be -- we're trying to do is is established the scale of the of these hit the toll payers have taken and the professor potter from Babson College look at all the internal data and publicly available data. Including the MTA's own internal studies. That have come to the same conclusion. And if -- to work that was done internally by the MTA which they don't discuss and haven't revealed to the public he put that together and bounded over the last three years toll payers have taken a half a billion dollar hit another would have a billion dollars of total money has not gone to the -- like that -- would have been -- a lot of money. That people should not have to be made. To pay that's responsibility. For all of us now.

Imagine how much nicer the service could be at the toll booths without a half billion asserted they could be washing your car when you come through.

Leo it's so -- But but these -- the so he's absolutely right that seventeen -- people's claims does not totaled three and a member of our job. -- job they -- job misrepresent all the members of the class and make sure that the the assets will be available to them -- in -- successful it also shows the magnitude of the wrong -- can sit down with us tomorrow. To work this out to -- trying to reaffirm total equity. And to come up with a proper remedy. For the past we don't have to fight this out -- in -- and absolve your take all the time and money and energy we can actually provide the relief right now in a way in which everybody people find respectful and fair and equitable. We just have to sit down and do it and right now our leaders are feeling that they're ignoring the people's -- to be treated with respect and to -- and to reaffirm 300 year old law -- vote total equity that everybody should be treated fairly and with respect --

Question with regard to trying to work something out of the turnpike came and said locker we think with based on the sales tax and other ideas that a floating around the state house. We can forestall and -- goal. The plan to at all increases which are going to have scheduled to happen within the next three weeks or so. Is that sufficient for the job play tips are do you deal with do we really have to go back and try to come up with a corrective. Plan because of the overpayments they have been making that they've already made.

No here's the problem the toll hike it took up first -- toll hike. Is going to be there's there's going to be doubling of the tolls but every color of the hike every dollar's gonna go to pay the debt bondholders for increased debt service for gets taken out to pay for the big Big -- up -- one dollar will be available even with the hike goes through yup that's going to be to -- the road. That's number one number two then we there's still have to have an affirmation of toll equity. Because the that the told that they are charging right now before the doubling aren't artificially inflated to take care of they get to the big big.

Yes are you see I see it need to either rolled those back got to find some other form of equity.

Yeah absolutely we have to affirm the principal and right now the legislature. And that's really important is going to happen the next couple days of the matter affect the legislature has the so called transportation reform bill and emit the house overwhelmingly passed the Senate didn't 88 total equity. A provision that mandate that told the Massachusetts have to be used for the services provided that's really important that people call their legislature -- the transportation committee in particular -- on our site toll equity dot com.

It's totally -- Project Genesis and its whole equity trust dot com.

It is -- you can get they're both ways made it easy for people and at all equity trust either way.

So toll equity dot com just want to make sure we weren't blown.

No no not at all no -- either one will get to the -- but definitely. -- the transportation conference committee members and demand that they keep toll equity in the -- transportation reform bill or they'll be no transportation reform because whether there's a new agency here in new authority they're just going to be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and continuing to do the same thing taken -- money and not using it but the toll road and use it whatever else they want to use of.

For now -- things you don't have any chance with this lawsuit and yet -- consulting and with them not and -- that at all I actually it's an intriguing argument Denham told the U as a spectator in the court yesterday watching Jan. Thought that the judge warmed to the argument over a period of time that initially use I think you described them as being kind dismissive paid alleges a little bit -- And now he's intrigued by it may be the turnpike if authority attorneys are a little bit on the defensive and half two -- Because I I I am I've been intrigued by G anti -- since day.

One -- I didn't feel like the turnpike has taken this seriously enough because I hired a Florida come into who didn't have the gravitas to be up against -- it was kind of fun. He must not give -- his mother says that you -- And he was running scared. Israel there are telling everybody should come next time no coverage I don't -- the Middlesex superior court in Woburn.

You know we started always started delivering case and took on. You know we it was the first case we -- took on -- corporations had never been sued for poisoning. You know what community's water supply and being -- you know alleged to have poisoned children because -- cancer everybody laughter that's what we did -- which you know what overtime and it took a long time. Government studies prove that the companies were responsible for the pollution and subsequent studies. By the state and federal government prove that the pollution was responsible for the kids cancer. So yes -- you know oftentimes when you when you take these things on there's a lot of you know when necessary skepticism because you don't we're being challenged about conduct that is killing us and it's this whole activity -- a version is a fundamental problem that is in our governance right now which is. Breaking the bonds between the government and the people because it's a form of of that fundamental matter of disrespect and that the government can take your money and do with it as they please then where are we would just what we were three.

Well wait a second. Important if if if non elected people can make decisions about taking your money doing what they want when the we've got a serious problem. Right that's the heart of your case is -- not.

Yeah actually well look at it we have the Big -- the largest construction project in the history of the world. And dad Big -- we have not been dealing with our leaders have not checked -- what -- the talk openly and honestly they can talk -- openly and honestly which is why it Witten went spiraled out of control. And and we have the report that showed that on our web site by the way inspector general report that has there internal memorandums that say we can't tell the people the truth they're actually telling -- to each other we can't of people accountability tell the truth they'll shut us down it's that kind of.

They certainly mr. -- not and they absolutely misled the legislation they did I kept -- YouTube they camps and on time on budget we're doing okay we -- we have federal -- what you guys do to punish those bastards. Well none of them none of them and their -- by Alvin at the time when there were. Stonewalling when you find out do misled. There are there was already years was passed and there are -- but they're also some and on the repercussions a lot of professional. Repercussions for people you privately admit dope -- well yeah it's not mean not not the Tampa we have and the public has not seen on the type of pummeling that -- going to give them an.

Cool well I hope so yeah. I think you're okay and makes up for lost -- a.

For everybody else that's the fundamental doubt they've -- the fundamental -- law meant to us. Around this I don't know of its -- and unconstitutional. We leave it to the judge in -- in the attorneys to hammer that out but it's fun to.