DiMasi indicted...

It's what was able to what got Boston. We continue to call breaking news former Massachusetts speaker of the house -- has been. Indicted. The acting. US attorney Michael loud and count of conspiracy -- three counts of honest services mail fraud. For cancer at a service wire fraud and aiding and abetting his charges for Americans and remembrance on. And and stop being a wise it's time for senator and installed on these talk. Is related to legislative events both of which were intended to benefit company Cognos. One. Five point two million dollars the second the inclusion of a provision. In the immediate needs capital crime bill 2007.

Can't validate if it is -- legally then I'd be really stupid where I'm being killed for -- was always made in the best improve. My constituents.

And for the people -- welcome back.

Music and -- it's affecting your goals and six runs on 2666. Years sixty years of broadcasting from a new problems. -- quarter. It's time for. --

Wow pretty dramatic start to the day that it's it's. But you want to talk about to. I like that topic he gave yesterday about the grandparents yet when you do you want to be called anything but -- Papa. -- about the summarized Charlotte's to assess. For the first hour let's do this and I think --

Click go democracy. Clicked on -- code demise yeah. How many years -- things -- Well I think you -- California pollution him but now now these are serious is a very serious John more than a couple of years he's a very very serious judges and if there is say trial and conviction. Could lose his home certainly we'll suspension. And could be incarcerated for a good number he has good memory is I don't think that's -- and this is not a light okay it's not like it's about you've read the indictment. -- read the indictment. The challenges. But there are there horrific charges that are out there to refer -- I don't see anywhere they should be true that very severe penalties. You don't see any way they could be true yeah -- told me. Because whenever we discusses this past I suspect that some tongue in cheek here we Acura know whenever we discuss this in the past that and and I suggested there might be some culpability -- part you've always said. Who was -- it was that the executive its executives' decision or soft the executive does sort of the so therefore exactly right there could not be any. Malfeasance on the part of supplements 'cause it wasn't his -- well I think the prosecution. Is alligator -- reviewed the allegation you central allegation news. Deprivation of honest services. The allegation does not have to show that to -- awarded the contract because the country with. The key you have it's it's impossible to show that the award is given by the executive branch but the allegations suggest that the -- he was. Pressuring the administration. To make the award for this type of -- so that's where you are -- couldn't happen because of the of the separation of powers -- be the wrong and have analysis it's it's it's possible it's also stretch for the for the prosecution to alleged deprivation of you thinks on certain -- you -- you think it's a stretch to suggest that that to -- influenced the the purchasing with the direction all the purchase notorious I know what I'm saying is that it's -- stretch of the that the specific crimes distraction has not been accepted in some jurisdictions. That deprivation of honest services is it's news it's it's not a specific crime it's. It's kind of collection of incidents and relationships and conversations that overall then that prosecutors say. Lead to a denial. A Vonage service of some jurisdictions have not accept because -- restrictions weary in the United States of America. But that's just a name for bribery isn't no -- no bribery is something of payment to us specific payment of the sum of money or good to great and good to give to service. In return for something. Specific which is what happened here well. Oops I mean why is that the charge toward what it is that charge being chosen in replacement of some other charge era why isn't at a bribery I I think because -- just did not hold that does not have that the the legislature let's say -- that -- rather focusing on the individual. -- of the office of the power of the office to speak about the legislature shall we would have I have -- direct authority in order to accept a hero he is an example so let's say that the speaker does have. The decision to purchase printers and copiers for the Massachusetts house represented Q do of them -- home. In and returned and so.

Okay so this just a distinction between whether it's his direct authority that yes exactly this is -- a -- this is but under the terms of the of the law they've -- a different charge for bribery when it's not specifically your jurisdiction he was able to use he had enough authority beyond what's what's the specifically spelled out -- enough leverage to go to the governor's office and said look this is what I want -- and they followed it because he's powerful guy in that.

Ought to. I'm I'm not sure that I buy you thesis here I'm not disputing obviously as I said don't set already repeatedly the severity of the charges that these these are horrific horrific chargers a first down and judge in the penalties. Are incredibly. Incredibly severe and probably -- for an abuse. An abuse of office are known -- Macy's -- thirtieth he's a friend who I've known as wife for many many issues -- guests on the show I know which children. You a deal that they going to go through is. Something that nobody wants to go through at all it's just of a brutally difficult time that being said. The executive. Can make their own decisions and a speaker represented over anybody expressing an interest in soft in a particular piece of software particular company. I support should take Indian menu weighed in the in the balance been disposed to be making the executive is supposed to be making sure.

That I'm on a deliberate process you and -- the reality of politics is if on the governor you're the speaker of the house and you want something badly enough -- things from US use say constantly. That's the horse trading the politics that's what you do your and so I -- you don't -- but you don't horse trade improprieties that's -- you don't do you don't know are traded on literally lock criminal acts that would be US trade on. Gee you know I'd I'd like to solve this problem approached this problem in this way you'd like to approach that way how about. A little -- that I -- saying you Liz Taylor of the the Democrats so difference between bribery and this thing. Is is is so incremental has to be nonexistent in my mind because what sell -- Macy was doing was selling his power at the state house to do. What. He what he wanted done so he he get a return on on his power. Rather than doing the people's business and to me that's bribery it doesn't make any difference whether it's -- he arrived article authority. Or whether his influence because he holds a position everything we read of courses in the best light drills or the prosecution none of the testimony against him -- Or anybody else who was indicted yesterday has been challenged. Four bias for modem for an hour early -- what are we know we read these things I mean you practiced law for a long time when you read it does a read like a strong case based on what you've seen spelled routers that looked like. The kind of thing that's going to be able to easy issue pollster. It it it's not to say right now really really is it's hard to -- right now so there's nothing -- about it this is while they've got to nail I mean what what's viewed about it is this the amounts of money that are involved. The timing of the payments -- regularity of the payments have been and how about that connection between the acceptance of 5000 dollar check in the distribution of 4000 dollars yeah I -- those things those that received to have fallen to a pattern -- just die -- personal very smart in in in comparison well I don't mean -- make it that you might want to make -- a laughing -- final -- we laughed at her. Because of these stupidity the obvious stupidity of of sitting there and take you know shoving 5000 dollars in your bra. But by comparison taking a monthly check. Looks like you're mentally or by comparison well -- she looks like a sharply --

India and and again this is that the case at least as I read it -- seems to focus on. The so called PA the private attorney. That was formal. Law up general are associated to Macy's when he became the speaker as I understand -- is just my understanding of debris from Reading the indictment but. He for the most -- turned over bunch of cases that he had criminal and civil cases to -- is an active RF what was that practicing attorney in a very very good attorney. Turned a lot of those cases over to his Laura Sosa because he -- as speaking was his time was going to be exclusively concentrated on -- on state house of fifths. And as cases go forward and resolved unsettled. Deal would absolutely legally -- point quite appropriately be referral fees back and forth. I don't know whether any of these fell into that category but the pattern has laid out in the indictment. Shows a regularity that would say gee this is. This doesn't seem to fit the well that's a likely defense argument. Owing to what I think without a doubt I think the private attorney who I think has been it has been identified a global articles the last couple of months Steve and to Fazio. Is going to be the central the central witness in this case yes central -- this is the information received from him is the way it's gonna go going to be granted immunity or was aren't there's a huge decision coming up then it's into it doesn't have to be made in the next week of the next month that might not be made follow more than media. But a huge huge decision has to be made by the defendants specifically -- the -- as to whether he -- whether he thinks he can get a fair trial and not. The mean a couple of you fair or unfair to him out of a compliment you might want to Koppel played I mean the problem is the severity that challenges -- not gonna get. Meanwhile he might -- that he might be able to plea for collier's -- is the globe and herald all right for the next several days about the stain on Massachusetts politics and stand on the speaker's office of one of the three guys they'll write about okay. On the second of now three speakers in a row that have been indicted for. Fairly serious charges I entered a plea. They're a lot of there's a lot of thinking goes into that and the fact of the matter is on the on the challenges now brought against speak to sell the Macy as of yesterday. The severity of these charges do not suggest to me. That. Probation which is when I got -- probation would be an option would be an option I don't think the US attorney's office would consider that and nor do I think a federal judge would seriously consider it I'd I'd just. I just don't see it to to Macy has to sit back and literally make an evaluation. Can I get a fair trial mean my feeling on that -- protective very very -- I don't think he can. I don't think he can't it's not from pretrial publicity. It is hard about a fair trial and what's hot about it. You think you confront twelve people in Massachusetts who literally will suspend their judgment and give the benefit of the doubt because that's what they're supposed to do.

Another -- to give all the auto effect I think pre trial published -- easier for a politician sure. You think so she think you could go into that -- absolutely and and the bigger the balloon is blown out of emotion the easier it is to issue if somebody heavily. Because it -- understand because it won't oneself has played up in the media becomes this emotional circus right and people build up opinions based on. Very. Flimsy pieces of information or that is certain piece of information or fight in the media. So as soon as you get in front of the facts. You can instantly be shifted in your outlook for an end to end that the volume of emotion becomes. That the fuel that drives you towards a new position I I would agree in that in some cases your analysis is absolutely spot on with. Political people I would absolutely disagree a 180 degree disagreement could not disagree more the assumption. -- Mean for the most by people in politics ordinary people who got mortgages that ordinary -- this is very effective well 61726668. Succeed Mike your WR DO atomic --

Morning guys who like. Listen let's give credit where credit is due course of our markkaa throwing names out there are the other guys are news station had announced. -- on her or whatever it decency. He would acknowledge I mean this guy who's been gleefully. Plotting the demise of the globe but all these people losing jobs he would acknowledge the drop that the globe. State college team get on that and and it wouldn't be such a bad thing per barrel. To Lum to acknowledge Judy that they did one heck which Robert in my last -- I want to say is that extra benefit -- every -- paper.

I absolutely. It's good to have newspapers aren't as much is we're not impressed with the global lot of time I think commit to that point.

I mean an -- detractors desire we give them my kudos because you know the paper and stand up and be proud they get Eric -- draw upon that very much.

MRI -- although -- which has been handed documents I get the feel on that Steve Cyrus probably -- you listening and again I think Mike Nixon on jets up early every day I think I think Mike makes a a good good case indeed you do need an aggressive press you do need a public that is going to insist upon. Accountability and performance and meeting meeting -- which -- that I think is one of the things we've blacks.

Tony you're NWQ good morning. Org -- on the -- I just want to say that I am shocked just special shock that is one party state. Another speaker of the house -- been indicted. -- do you think it's a set up a fix. To all. I mean how how is impossible I have three guys in a row who -- and the economist at. Crops actual crops sort. Perhaps it's actually a pretty good principle yes that's -- that's an accurate that's an accurate to smoke good let's expand on that we continue 617 twos and 6860. Todd Todd I know it sounds like a funeral here but I think mister speaker will liven up this. Time goes on with your help on 680 WRKO.

One's a little bit of the last two and three other well thinks he's always right. -- Veteran amber told firebird on Boston's top stories and AM 68. WR --

Indictment alleges two components to this scheme and artifice of the front. What part was to get for Cognos for four point five million dollar software license contract the department of this case. The other allegations of -- People 2006. Staffer pretty amazing cast and -- legislature or. Is closer to educational Budget Committee and its related to the software license. That other legislative or it's not implicated. But able twelve to do amazing staff person at two minutes to Madonna to forward -- allow. Political twit for the Two Rivers for adopted the house purposes. And April 28 well it's older fathers and fully -- this great news and that things are coming together perfectly. But summer though the Senate had not adopted either amended. The commissioner of education -- two amendments including the four point five million dollars earmarked for the software.

And on and on echoes. Notes are very -- and watched media video clip of that last night acting US attorney Michael locks making his. Verbal presentation. Off the body of the the indictments itself from the indictment is you you read it Todd I read it goes on. And on and on and on -- in the allegation that detail just started in December of 2004. And continued through at least about this in February of 2008. There was this how most contracts are awarded to -- say this is unusual. Says it's highly unusual. Further -- money exchanged. I mean there's somebody -- a sales agent. In Nevada not and not in the public rob somebody's a sales -- I mean sales and non volatility emissions also signers of the house or politicians here is that Israel -- EU trying to be serious -- at -- you want answers -- there's going to be it is a serious threat. How to almighty this that is a serious my point about a fair trial nobody in the country and idiotic you -- idiotic presentation and answer is I'm Christiane -- I think you can get a fair trial at the speaker's help I think yeah easily and get a fair but it probably US attorney announced. I don't thank -- we -- a strike you as ludicrous. The well because that's the impression that -- What's the what's the impression he's given the impression that because if you look at the experience regular army has made to a speaker of the house for contracts that are awarded. By the commonwealth a message when you really this -- defenses that.

Were thrown up by a sell the -- while this was being portrayed in the globe. And when you look at what the arguments. Are the -- be potentially made as a defense. They all sound like routine. The sorts of arguments. That -- you'd you'd try to fly far -- accusations that are made against him. We hear the flopping off of accusations that seem rather serious on a regular basis so I'm just wondering if there's more to it then I don't just this one set of charges I think it's a serious question organism mention a few moments ago on one of the three people who will be government and the fact I think you. The the indictments. That of the of the two previous speakers are at putting these the three sets of charges in a single category doesn't help us understand I don't think -- anything that's.

Going all it does and away to agency specifically question is this kind of a routine way that speakers. Add to their compensation. Are enhance their personal -- the answer is no. Look to that looked to the two previous speakers. Who were investigated I was investigative for more than 22 and a half years. They found absolutely nothing improper illegal anything whatsoever I get into an argument in court. About my role my responsibility in just gonna redistricting. -- case in which the allegation was racial bias absolutely no foundation to the allegation whatsoever I was furious about the allegation. And that it showed I lost my temper an impediment very very significant price -- Speaker clarity as I recall another look at -- to take calls on the 6172666868. And make the correction on the clarity when. Thomas -- of his popularity -- in in in investigated for two and a -- he has by the FBI in the US attorney's office based upon his read his alleged relationships with lobbyists you know what they indicted him -- Noncompliance attacks evasion. The value if you can tell me what the value. Of staying at a cottage -- the cape with a friend for a week. The friend happened to be the lobbyist he did not report the imputed value of that forward to final week as taxable income by supposed to come close to the water that idea how -- if it's a cold weekend chain.

You know -- the possibility of no value at all I will talk more about it coming up six CDW Arcadia penalized. Him. -- Is related to legislative events both of which were intended to benefit company Cognos. Five point two million dollars its second inclusion of a provision. In the immediate needs capital crime bill 2007.

He had felony if that is they legally then I mean really stupid -- crime being killed for light heart was always made in the best improve. My constituents.

And that the people with a homer of the --

It is it's so much. Musical brushed it should be affecting your goals and six runs on 2666. Years of experience broadcasting from a new problems were. This time.

Welcome back in good morning deal Wednesday June not a bad day Todd not as good yesterday. Yes that have little cloudy -- it is warm today maybe some showers south -- hundred assault Sharon case Casey's gonna drive down their seat you can catch the Rijndael in an original.

I get a busy day -- and ridiculous stuff with Donna -- it's a little bit later in the day -- okay okay one thing on my horizon yes there was glorious day. Except for a -- to -- let's put a damper on the -- I'm not a good day yes not a good day of the debates he noted that day of the Massachusetts house represented a house reps and probably most important and out of a group of people Massachusetts. Is this a sense that -- I think I have pretty good sense of how they feel. These have a sense of betrayal. An absence of I don't think US attorneys the judges say an absence of a I don't want people feel betrayed. I don't think so no I think this confirms expectations and that's perhaps the most unfortunate thing for folks who. Work honestly an honorable. Two to get government working now. And -- one of the rest state reps -- quoted in today's paper roast their representative David to receive news has looked as a body blow to the institutional body -- anybody who's in politics and he senses it's not and unfortunately it's not an accurate portrayal he uses the forget 95% you Burmese and 99% to an accurate portrayal of the work of 95% of the people who. Stand for officer elected by the neighbors and their constituents go up there and try to do the best they can under. You know under -- always challenging circumstances it when the economy's current challenging. Set a certain stages there's a structural part problem with the House of Representatives in the unique power that the speaker hands yes I don't. Capsule will deposit what should change and it Eritrea at least three things that this issue involving speaking to -- yesterday racism with talked about one of the ability to get -- for somebody who has been in -- high profile public position political position. To get a fair trial I don't think it can happen that you think you can although just a moment ago you said don't unfortunately -- think this confirms expectations. So this is the confirmation of.

Makes it easier to me for. Lawyer to be able to turn you in the other direction for the more -- you it's like the artist's self defense or use the other person's momentum against them you thanks a somebody who's throwing themselves off balance with a motion just as -- in in a fight. Is making themselves vulnerable to having that momentum turned and and direction unintended. So I don't. I never buy these arguments about fair trial.

The -- the the analogy is not a good analogy for no other reason than in a serious trial. There's a lot of gray area this a lot of ambiguity he said she said gee that that wasn't my understanding that was so and so is understanding. And people kept sensitive puzzled nobody's puzzled when it comes to the tragic as the politician they believe the worst it's automatic it's so economists say you're saying where -- their judgments made about who to give the benefit of the house to. That in those in those gray hair he's grey areas -- I believe this is -- my own conclusion that it would almost always go against the elected official a lot of I've been on the about 22 years now a bit more attorneys here. The most frequent garment I've had the two he has his view on not yet absolutely nothing like the personally read seen that's what I mean. It's -- it's taken almost two years now some people can't to that conclusion in two months it's not the -- but a trial is too weak to me every meeting with few to draw.

You're more positive match your -- it's on everybody's -- so for the first cup I -- is that they get to see how wonderful I know you would -- that I know present beyond your authority on my durability -- and comprehend that threat but so that so that's one the question first question is can -- it's serious it's a serious question of the audience -- about the -- from people want. Do you actually think you could sit on a trial. He give a high profile. Public official an elected official the benefit of the doubt I doubt feeling a runs guns I doubt a very I think there are -- are through the you know -- and a hundred but I think it's possible to sit there because as soon as -- a couple of facts. That you've never heard before that totally shift your perception -- a whole new ball game and then it's up to the other side to Europe you know bring you back up since you.

Oneself and as I said yesterday as the best day for the prosecution because they're putting forward a case that's based upon grand jury testimony and hasn't been challenged in any way. There's been no impeachment of the person -- that the evidence that's been presented and so. You know speaker to mason and his attorneys will have that opportunity as a Leo the defendant spot. It's it's a political -- so it's it's loaded. He asked is there are structural problems yeah I do think there is a structural problem because back probably goes back now I guess more than. -- I think the biggest mistake that we made and it was brought to us by the Boston Globe in the League of Women Voters. Was the reduction in the size the Massachusetts house representatives. It concentrated power on the speaker's office I was a speaker I know about the power that is in that office it's powerful. It can -- as a matter how many reps are it's just has it if it's if it's a it's like a mathematical equation. Much much easier to control ought to lead you know whatever you want to use to control -- a small group that'll watch group munchies. And the other thing that has been lost over the is not attributable to speak at the mason noted me not a speaker clarity and or anybody else. They have lost the practice and the art of debate. Up there it was when I went in there was 1979. I was actually the first year of the house cut so the house used to be 240 members can now 160. Two big big reduction it's just it is the the power that this considerate literally in terms of physics if you.

it's still huge body compared to the Senate wide as this is this if you fall your logic the Senate would have the more grotesque problems right now it's easier to control of body I think as a -- the I think the power of the Senate president news. Multiples of the speaker of the house I really do. Who both the thing that protects the Senate a little bit from perhaps some of the excesses. Or some of the abuses that we may have seen over the is in the house. Is that there's a tradition of deference. Two at the individual -- so if he even of the Senate president says they look I really want to do this health care bill. It's senator -- Feinberg and it doesn't you don't necessarily have to be a member leadership says look I want to put that -- hold that's respect you can that is tough times respect now in the end is as things get -- and a presence -- what should hold up what chip hang -- but I has that saw the inmate has a -- quality like the US senate's does -- where there's -- lost a lot of -- number residual -- in -- house because it's already it's almost like the other spears just says they -- about tax. Ha -- do what I tell you hot hot hot. So so -- it it doesn't quite worked -- way but you know this. There's a lot of deference given to the speakers. Office I'm not -- and I'm not -- that I imminent and ever understood why. The globe and herald minimized and and the kind of presented in what I would call sophomoric ways to say all the space gets control of a we you sit your office space in the number give of the aids and -- that stuff I spent more than half -- Korea more than half. In the basement of the status and it was felt as if I was being punished and never felt as if somehow or other religious -- or for matter and you deserve.

The hot hot hot and other people I was like the head does anybody that was immigrants aren't going to basement levels in our apartment -- I'm not. Let.

So throw a question are you surprised by these charges against -- Macy and there are you assuming SI -- that you'll be found. Innocent of these charges and there will be proven to be trumped up phony things 6172666860. Are you surprised. To have seldom -- charged with these crimes and as you hear the the fact -- present and how do you think it's going to turn out.

Flow of money it's the specifically chronicled in the indictment typically the attorney received a 5000 dollar check from Cognos. With -- a couple of days since 4000 to me is to -- you -- check. When allegations -- specific mention. It did 2006 the flow of money has stopped. To me as instructed the attorney to check with Madonna to find out what was wrong. There after allowing you know the Cognos executive but just got the phone -- he says we need to look into the attorney issue fast can you escalate this please. We don't want to (%expletive) off anyone this late in the game.

So there you have it. -- up the sound of things that went. On and on and on and on. With details of what of what is alleged to have transpired. How does this impact to is this routine TO I think for most people masters is not a shock and -- demoralizing I think they viewed as business as usual. Him and that's the biggest burden that that those who are doing legitimate business face so.

So if they see it as business as usual that goes to my point to vote about a fair trial there's also another point to be -- I mentioned in net and an earlier segment. There -- contracts that a speaker or senate president does control as you know let's say printers and -- that's the example that I used. The Massachusetts House of Representatives. Their computers whatever whatever might -- Those internal decisions. If in fact this was as routine as you are suggesting and it's probably most calls well we're gonna would agree with you on on the what they think is -- routine nature this. You would be you would find ample evidence of people who would enriched themselves either speakers themselves like me.

Staff and associate IC doing as you discover that administer that we can -- I mean look at if if these charges are true. The breeze INS with which it was done indicates a sense. Debt. There's nothing that can stand in your way. I don't I don't I don't follow at all Diane walker and sits in a restaurant takes five grand shows in her -- that shows a lot of -- also shows. Kind of -- an unsophisticated approach like this is not a systemic kind of thing this is something she feels like she can pull off on the sides so she doesn't crude way. -- The charges against him are in a in a blatantly irresponsible way for especially for people have lawyers and a familiar with the law to. Half a check cut T every month into two. -- down a fact pattern. That's so visibly trouble. If for word ever rise to the surface implies that they think. There's no way this stuff ever comes to the surface well the first of all the not stupid and in the stuff comes to the surface.

When it happens on a fairly regular basis that -- doesn't happen what if they're not stupid then why is our fact pattern like this laid out for swelled because this is the US attorneys version of events I'm not saying the US attorney is wrong what I'm saying is there isn't a -- notices and -- like he'll also under -- also there are also alternative. Circumstances or events or -- immigrants post story lines are -- well why isn't the US attorney's presentation story. Why the alternate -- are understood but -- not talked about the story I'm talking about the facts so so when -- but essentially what about this lacked a pattern is trouble. When -- becomes the speaker he's an active practicing attorney he has a number of criminal cases. A number of civil cases he knows he our first those two others are he gives in to this private attorney who's right in the midst of this whole -- Stephen to -- it was a net. Now those cases have a value as the settled as the payments are made by client says it -- things don't want it sometimes a case will go on for what 2345. Years before you pretty it's not settle some civil cases. To Macy would have a reasonable and absolutely legal expectation of payment upon although we understand that's a possible defense although Josie explain why it's -- the guy is a partner with them in this -- would be saying something different to the prosecutor did it doesn't explain at all which is why again to cause he has testimony is going to have to be here aggressively challenged by diminish safe journey last year -- what's his -- of what was he doing. What is the you know what's so there's nothing about this lack of pattern that suggests that story line is a viable 11. What why would you expect the US attorney in the presentation of his or her in this -- his best case. To give any credence or even air time even any exposure to an alternative theory to me I'm not asking him to either saying there's a -- get a chance I oversight grand -- and you look at the monthly payments than the disappearance of the payments then they. Yeah okay and you know you look at the whole thing just reeks of be in bizarrely. Constructed in to two point civil with the way he the it to -- prosecutors are saying when which is why described these right from the beginning as these horrific. Horrific allegation 61726666. -- do you. Find yourself shocked that this morning. As you review these details John Campbell.

Hello John. C'mon John.

But great -- It's a beautiful more. Modern look to these -- yes it. Act. At this spot to station. Well how many months ago. -- What did you say -- it won't happen it will. You know what. Because picture out of that office but it is laudable or it's not.

Josh could you be on the jury and -- give a -- give a boost to give the benefit of the doubt.

Seriously.

You think so he thought about it now he did you think about it there was a nice pregnant pause.

Yeah yeah I I attribute the benefit of the doubt. I would benefit. From my doubt it will ever have another speaker that while the index.

A John makes my case. John -- I would modify yourself IAC I would want John in lawn mine juror who -- yeah because he's a guy who looks for the fact studies. And now makes his decision based on the information he gathers and John who told us about the Occidental College -- at Harvard and a job and -- made a mistake in his investigation is -- heard the facts what you did you Mullen acknowledged that he didn't know.

Like that you like visiting. --

new cigarette Dan itself the good morning -- WR Leo are you shocked we got some new reconcile the two -- current state pay attention. They -- good morning.

Go to Monaco or I Collins and I've -- bad I can't believe there's a paper trail for the that he's -- spoke with.

Well but it doesn't make you believe he's innocent it. Whose -- look at the fact patterns as alleged who's dumber he ever Dianne Wilkerson.

Hit a talent like -- I'm not you know I'm not much surprise at all. You know I think -- if they experience what we're gonna. And it -- out of a game.

Your assumption is this kind of thing happens on a regular basis occasionally are very rarely which of those stand.

It. It's proven my point and I think we have did you I think I -- clearly not a bit I think in jury pulls out 32 -- you John from lol again and I'll think what I'm saying all Muslims say why do we even bothering to have to -- and his attorney show up on court can we just get to the sentence like -- my.

Point is the more diluted window member of the more loaded up a person is with expectations like that the easier they are -- putty in your hands as an attorney Heidi -- you and your -- alone because you can show them the facts of how this never happens how this body behaves in the most credible above board transparent way. And you can common look and you can see. That on a regular basis everybody's behavior imported.

Why do you keep good going back to -- like the regular basis that this is a routine occurrence the two previous speakers. Specifically me and -- clarity who were investigated -- a total of about five years between the two of us. There was no. Hint allegations of improprieties self enrichment outsell the deal I'm not saying anything I'm not saying this -- as principals but the people who worked for -- I'm not saying it's routine I'm saying you look at it you have to you wonder job because he knew he based on the allegations one about it so blatantly. That it makes you feel like it's an easy thing cover up in their four people engagement Beth and Boston that morning. I bet I -- good morning.

And I get it I I I technology called quote I guess.

next time don't tell us he just -- yesterday I thought and then everybody won't say Hollywood's death again and start talking at the other always welcome to call don't worry about how --

Catapult their -- first of all I. You know John -- To me is so depressing why you constantly put him on a flight.

All at there's your answer about is completely out of his mind that's one of the reasons why.

All I mean it's so predictable what I'm afraid I have no no and in -- a lot of I don't. And I supplies gas and shock you want yeah I am I also believe that. I don't believe that he said he still -- each ideas and I swear on the Bible I have nothing in that I I don't believe it would be that stupid I. This reflects how we -- it'd Asian. Massachusetts while it.

And it happens and happens each and every day -- common carriage way that you think he -- it happens each and every day how what's out there may see how we power rise nation of Massachusetts politics you know exactly what I meant that you know exactly what she said. There.

Indicted today that a grand jury. Salvatore after Mazie. Former state representative and speaker in Massachusetts House of Representatives.

It's a beautiful morning. It's probably Arlington dot com. -- make people so. That. Oh my god. I -- I thought I'm not surprised at all. You know I think it did they -- you what it all up.

Area did I have a game tonight but yeah I'm shocked yes yeah and I also believe -- it. I don't believe all you don't want the plot.

One out of four so -- 11 person could sit on the jury and give. The appropriate benefit of the doubt to all defendants not just to some but to I'll see my belief is that for that. I I suspect it's pretty rare that a crime of this magnitude is so perpetrated by one of our elected officials but I think the pattern of behaviors -- normal one. And that is a sense of disconnect. And arrogance about everything going on up in the house of ill repute that it gets to be contained there and they get to do what they want. And there's a sense of a screw the people.

And there's a census was of people I do think this an institutional -- up there I think for people with too deferential to the office. And it's not. It's -- to speak as a human beings still do what they can not illegally not inappropriately but gee if nobody is -- go you know caught he wanted to show let's do this let's do that I mean in the end he left yet if that's the situation the operating situation. For the most -- He left to the hopefully the good judgment the wise judgment of the particular person involved it's up to the members Brad Jones themselves as one of the papers today's the Republican leaders you know -- on the -- from time to time Brad Jones himself says look. In the end this is up to two sets of people. The members of the house. To ask questions to participate aggressively in debate and not just because the speakers a Democrat all Democrats automatically fall in line as a matter of fact. The biggest the biggest faction against me Todd. We're a bunch -- very very vocal very active Liberal Democrats I was much too conservative and -- for them and they use I don't want to say that made my life miserable but they tested each and every day and I had to be prepared I'm sure -- and well they -- back and has given taken that nobody should be troubled by that not a speaker who might say gee you know is really open wrap up the -- by 7 -- recital hall stayed away.

Plot point is there is a level I'll take this and there's a level of arrogance in the normal behavior of the legislature. -- Let's go to Jeff in Salem where the heck is -- Who want to Jeff how via proxy and lesbians don't music -- all screwed up and then now looking up. Where Jeff caught let's go to Jeff in Salem and W are -- good morning Jeff.

Morning guys to -- You know. Public service and this Sunday after it was all Republicans in this state -- it would be about my sisters. And on until I want to be left alone but. It seems to dislike what Todd says this arrogance of these liberals like when they don't want to Cassel walk up on a plane and go to Portugal. -- the same exact thing is these guys what did meet. In my -- alone don't touch weekly and we won't and -- Fed but they don't want more more more 2000 more jobs and this note to gov -- what what.

All right nicely put Jeff and I I think that's a largely shared opinion decadent and that I had NM I shared with them it's it's a -- opinion yet I would like to see more novices like the ultimate cardinal sin for Democrat or knowledge. That more Republicans in each branch the house and the Senate in Massachusetts. Would be a good thing you have to have some tension they have they have a check and a balance its classic so you green classic -- a green now I don't disagree or you're just you're just lost that a couple minutes ago at the suggestion. That what they're supposed to -- that is -- my job is they show that one fact upon another elites cook two to play a silly banjo music at a but that's that's the only thing I that I objected to a.

And jovial guy and I don't blame -- banjo music is in Malaysia -- reveal the Beethoven -- gets into a popular alternative and -- morning. You're on WRKO demoted -- Doing okay anyway -- there what's up.

I just credit figure out what -- they're going to have to -- guy you know.

I'm confident that it.

Lauded talking gonna in the morning Charles -- have -- Half a troika can you imagine how -- Peter thank you today John in Arlington units and WRQ Thomas taught here.

Good morning gentlemen I don't job are okay what's up. I think part of what people trying to say this morning is the arrogance comes from the legislature. And the state in a federal level. They quote they they treat themselves like they're almost seems there are exempt from what the laws that book is not speeding and so what it. -- to go to work to get eight mileage they treat themselves the best. It's almost like it's spinning it that awards best of me and -- what's best for the rest of the people so -- yet. That that's going on right now. It just a symptom of the problem. BI ish -- get the legislature. To be volunteer. Eight legislature agree that it warrants have the state he -- said the people you -- short. It's not -- don't screw it up and beginning -- up and commodity that we're -- not -- job. Or it's a well here's where. It's it is it gonna talk about the that was set up.

John can I ask your question I I I I'm I'm I'm pay serious attention to the idea would you do would you do it would you service -- select -- in the town a -- For nothing. He would. I would do it for money. An apparent -- talked to a pretax. No I wouldn't do it from no I would I would do for nothing or her big RH -- went to his old job yeah you wanted to and and why do I think it's a miserable job the selectmen. Just -- a lot of grueling work without much reward out but there are certain people for -- they find it compelling and they do it behind legislative decisions are any less grueling the I think legislatures -- fun.

You do out of the parliament the legislature. Take care of itself urged.

right you know the automatic rate as they put themselves above. And that's almost coming up and that's what's making people sick. Hero all of us and they have themselves as an -- go wherever they can get money they'll think it's.

That's a good point John I think that's. For represents the -- that's the journalists who are just pulled the -- no question and that's why I think colors except we have salient point out of this whole thing this morning is literally whether anybody who's a high profile public official. Can can get a -- I don't think -- part of I don't think he people care that much about that they pretend they care about -- everybody anybody you wanted to bring everybody they've got more drop the fact that they feel that the the the statehouses and impenetrable fortress. Where once people again aside they do whatever they want without caring about what the people want so close so let's -- pretty on the spot that's what is the percentage then of malfeasance and misbehavior and impropriety in criminal behavior that occurs up yeah I say. My guy you're you're the one in a position and I say 9899%. Of the members up there are honorable honest -- legitimate people you've met some of them you've come away astounded by some -- and while I'm not a guy that -- because there are some -- yeah okay because you approached it with you premiership premise just the -- the rock around -- larger premises not -- much -- with a self -- and sophomoric -- all doesn't -- them as individuals it means that this collective body. Is such a danger structure than even the good people -- there. Get the goodness. Pummeled out of them and he's a part of this isn't -- dangerous than an executive branch anymore danger imminent interest and an unrestrained and checked judicial branch you rant and -- every morning about the judiciary. And their excesses. You do not like Deval Patrick -- bond I don't know Atlanta Harrison does to help us except that. We've gotten where the house appropriates the money we're seeing here at the institutions of our government is not just the Massachusetts legislature know the legislature has the unique powers that -- and particularly the house appropriating money -- news shows the vulnerability for this kind of conflict. 6172666860. Graham Harrell continued next NW RKO.

You know I'd be bad talk about domestic market but Google that there I think that it precedent setting those Nevada jury did give the president the benefit. The doubt whether the average folk tradition of the debt that. You know the public -- look that it will take. -- to disposed to go to insert the people and go back in -- it was about to be a farmer and talk about it but keep it automatically save 90% of people open their books. But not -- that -- you know hypothetical couple Baden and that the big problem he'd just spoke to good of the people haven't Brokeback realized. Become a better job. And you know they took it to going to -- out of there were bitten nails scraping the war.

it only becomes a lifetime job if for example people in panel about allow you to make -- piano maybe we can use now I don't. Continue to say I'm gonna -- I'm going to reelect on it a vote per represented of so and so when he issued here --

A group of them but that the problem becomes everything everything about getting reelected not what do we not not doing the group of people. Think that -- look at what happened. Did encourage. In Massachusetts a look at California. Okay I would I would diplomat to the people vote on it and without a California you can recalled junkets that the judge didn't feel it was but it -- the next -- you tell them Google. Does this basket at the moment -- and I don't itself but.

None not in -- that's a good point Craig and thank you and makes actually great point -- but it's okay so his his a segment and of the population was the gay and lesbian community in cahoots with the Boston Globe and the members of the judiciary in the like. Hijacked a policy and imposed an on the people Massachusetts I was the alleged most powerful president Massachusetts is -- browsing can do it -- I going to stop at. Tried fodder fodder legitimately fought it openly there was nothing underhanded about what I hear you right in north. That there that there is other power in the state there is other parent night that this -- check and balance on it and that sometimes that not the Boston Globe would say it would applaud the outcome this so the -- picks and chooses its own it has its own agenda.

61726668. Succeeds Stephen Gloucester good morning Aaron WRKO.

I I would give it a -- barrio.

I thought I thought well. Batteries Steve you all know how you solitaire off -- that's ago.

bit bit the only big when you say beat convicted bella and former speaker that out yet debate which want. It out -- this guy Bedard got beat all respect -- the withdrawal that Republican and it would be the same way we know what -- eight. Okay because we have the most lopsided look world. Legislature are. There are a little less irritated and lopsided. Democratic republic like -- boot out out now want to outlaw. At about three former speaker of the house suit you very. --

is this is it has this look at again as of 1 of the central figures in the enough. In the reputation. It's a it's a terrible terrible blemish on Massachusetts it's a terrible mark on messages buddy if you weren't allowed nobody can dispute realistically though -- suggest that this is uniquely. Democratic this is -- this unfortunately these are the the failings of human beings I think it's clear that the Democratic Party in the state and nationally is the probably the most corrupt party in the history of the country finally decide that -- you just look at the history. Well Deo OK other than a glib assertion look at the history could you give us an example of now that's just what they told me -- Republican has started just.

Everything you need to know. We'll start your very -- on employees.

680 WRKO it is Wednesday morning. It is the first morning that we get to talk about the new indictment of the a former speaker of the house sell to may see him. Who is not surprising. I don't think many Massachusetts people. And you know this a good opportunity to flesh out the difference between perception and reality is you see it because you've been in there sure so what you could point to us and Charles with the problems are in the legislature and in the house what may be needs to be your problem.

That the big problem is the decline in the tradition. Of debate and challenge. Of the speaker I saw Eric has gone too powerful serve beginning to occur cowards they call it a lot and I came into the house and I didn't have enough kind of education -- experience in the Indian in the body itself to. -- what was going on I start accelerate enemy and accelerate even warranted to may take. The members have every right and obligation not just the right but the obligation stand up and say wait a minute what's this about -- six million either this.

Maybe the -- is chairman may -- the speaker's office is too powerful on their afraid to do that their -- suck ups spineless sock hops. Who want to get ahead and they know the way you get ahead is by doing what you're told you spent enough years helping out the speaker. Yet what he wants you picked the right people to support in the power struggles and you succeed I have my differences of opinion was speakers.

On on on my way up by voted the way that I felt was the best way to vote -- people -- for the people Massachusetts. And that's why you spent all those years in the basement you use you never figured out how hot how come you never figure that out -- get the memo is so much room up in that place for legitimate dissent than any legitimate speaker. Will listen carefully and try to reconcile what his or her review is or what the view of the majority is with a view the minority to get to do the the legislature more than anything else is a place of compromise. It's given tickets and it's a sense that hey -- fabric might be duly elected the rep from Lexington whatever but he is not god and -- the -- speaker -- the -- but -- and that's a problem -- members have become too -- why they have -- I don't know I didn't mean to people's eye -- I say it and punish people over you know everybody's going to get you might get this entire us finalists as soon also notes that I some subliminal thing that you happening in voluntarily give profitable but when I was not -- leadership up there and I was just a rank and file back venture. I would participate in debates I would ask questions I would push back and forth that's what members have to do that would Brad Jones is saying and it doesn't necessarily have to -- Republicans that doesn't even have -- necessarily come from the are thoughtful Democrats can I do with -- thoughtful Democrat senator has faith in the body he just wants stronger willed represented as I YouTube that's right W art in -- are you buy -- all that's good that.

You know it's obvious one thing. Across the living here so I can't let these people can't make eleven on this salary. They got to edit the subject staff have been a part time legislator. Legislature but people have jobs on the side that can make a living and in this that. So it's cronyism and some of the bills they pushed their ridiculous won't.

What percent to five jobs on the side. And -- is actually on to something it's declined over the years I used to encourage every single them about what of the hobby profession. Kariya. Whatever might be that that is always made you feel whole complete help to support your family keep don't want it. Just because you elected don't I it's popular -- give us a guesstimate on what percentage. Have another source of income.

I'm not talking stamp collecting them talking income no okay I would say you know -- I I icon and up. 40% of its may be easier said it's for maybe it's 40% of something else that the joint professionally outside the makes a little extra money always think of -- Ted I but and that for the first nucleus that was and all of the prophet seemed to go. The go down when you're on the barn that was the end of their career -- Allen -- good morning you're on this publicly Garcia tips went up prophets went down.

The morning. Good morning I woke got a bat just a bit better is that they ineptitude corruption. At -- different in the cinnamon. Not but it if BA work and I just got Fed up but the market out there that did that move because like cook them a lot of people yet. But I do expect I was on the -- but what percentage. Are all these people do it at full time job.

Again I'm gonna say probably 60% it's just the rough guess -- don't hold me to what I haven't looked at that -- and in quite awhile. But most of them holding it as a full time job villain -- next NW RU Heytvelt.

Hello good morning good morning I know the percentage could -- let's do it seems to be split section -- it's going to Iraq so we. Percentage all the politicians you came across did you get the impression we're dead suspended their own that's been basically rob the place.

A handful ten less and less than 010. 1012 over the course of Tony that's a lot of other across a 26 years we must -- given what you know whether that it was a lot of sense that gee they were selling their vote. But it was the sense that they would be playing on the edge. And that they might be -- either aggressively or inappropriately trying to raise campaign funds. Stuff like that there's personal limits you just say to yourself while this is this get a little bit crazy so I can't. Bob in -- your WR -- very very small as one of the crazy ones hi Bob.

Let's -- a -- aren't meant everybody knows that. Is the fact that it -- When Thomas speaker he went out KPCs. And silly wish or are you -- those are state owned peace he took time but what are we on the when.

Way to kind of Bob -- you've made to assertions so -- he saw the second I want right like I think with the computers are -- alike -- I don't know like -- with -- you don't lose your outlets that with the press -- have a conversation okay are shouting and.

Okay all right so all right let's stop what the second what are what what's the accusation I did not want allocate. PC's personal computers.

Personal computers stayed on personal computers until you knew well personally -- and I know that's Arafat.

You know that perfected to do what the basis as of -- factual knowledge.

The names I know people worked at this --

Whoever told -- that brought to -- an absolute bald faced lie.

Aren't going to take effort -- convicted -- right you're absolutely right yeah yeah you tell a great role model -- he enjoyed it Bob thanks for the -- yeah do you think it's possible that backs remove fools yeah yeah you're fool.

It there Leo do you think it's possible somebody who worked under you would have used that authority. That that they could exercise by using your name and -- viewer's -- you don't get your PC not a bit not at all. They get their legislative aide on Iran they get this computer on that nobody can may well the most 3-D -- has the IT -- longer all of them is a typical moron which goes back to my unassailable point now. There is no high profile elected official Massachusetts would get a fair trial. The -- of the world command and say holy on the scene that we are just so we don't it's like no there's little evidence that's what Bob would stay in court right there and -- going to sit back and say and throw a fastball right leftist SOB said let's go there that he thinks he knows what he's got an Abington -- before it got -- dynamic that it's a bald. Faced liar -- while Tim just told army told him he's all I don't know he's telling what he heard yeah he's alive. Don't believe you are not a big thing he's mechanism Macon add up carpet but a look at what I would put the jury now -- well I got from god hey Scott let's not be careful what you -- A little touchy around here tonight.

I think everybody on this planet is going to try to that it Maryland's situation -- of it in the situation. In -- matter what business they -- But in politics. I mean this. Guys don't try to make this city. A Korea. All try to do is is this guess steppingstone. Given that these lobbyists yes that's installed some bigger and better job. Bet that these guys know that -- and it'll look back bought the 8000 and lobbied their own interest. And we're all the -- it --

I would I think I I like the promise I would agree with that there's I think there's a sense of this is a career. And -- try to figure out ways to enhance your career instead of people having a sense of mission about I'm passionate about bringing this. The justice to the system or whatever it is you know you know I don't get a sense of people are ideologues their -- but there are many -- and there are some that a just single single yeah I mean certainly should go with a sense of mission about what a glorious thing it is. To have power to be able exercise or for the benefit of the state however go to our people I think far more than you lost out from African would do you think it survives overtime -- of.

Yes I -- and I think that's the impression I don't yeah I think it can become somewhat diminished to the you're the kind of sense of mission because this so much. -- Is to step into that chamber and recognize really the glory of the system not the glory of the office that you hold that title but the premise of your whole premise of the system --

Robin before -- to go to news' Robin Westwood --

Good morning you rob I think god -- altering its originally. Output setup. He represented to represent the people. Somewhere -- line at this current on its head. Where. The representatives elected all the people that it public but they. Nobody is it just betrayed that public -- And not just out now. I don't know we can't sing public -- on the -- a fair trial -- get -- there trial. Right but I'd like -- out and died on the one L a.

All right there's a prediction we'll see what happens more coming up in this conversation plus will find out what Steve sire thinks of the house -- representatives. Next on 680 WRKO.

Thousand want to talk cool.