Tim Cahill

You know we're gonna do right now as we promised our audience about a couple of days leading up to this moment we are going to join the state treasurer of Massachusetts Tim -- help. And the treasurer for a few years now -- day has some pretty serious responsibilities and it seems to make. Every time I pick up the paper in this some serious proposal. Tim Cahill is weighing in with an observation comment -- thought about it now one of the things that I thought was so important John. As we edit room welcome back to WRKO to finesse for a moment Takeo. -- I have they have the treasury give us Canada and a snapshot of the controversy in new. Which has become I think symptomatic of some of the some of the challenges that we face here in Massachusetts with you know -- a lodge number I don't I can't characterize -- the treasurer and his team. Have a grip on it. A large number of schools that built. 506080. Sometimes more than a hundred years ago and time to either rehab refresh demo book decide that he -- you know take the plunge and go for the for the for the for the new one. So without further reduce or any -- commentary in my -- let's welcome to parents forum state Treasurer Tim Cahill would want to Tim. -- thank you for join an S ten. He is he's got cars are all have mr. treasure our right to say he's absolutely. In car journal and inclined to give everybody kick in The -- whether they deserve it or not so are you rental items up for sure hey let's that with new north because it has been in the headlines from now followed several months and people. You know just ordinary people to him. Look there's there's the stand there incredulous really they see a price tag of high school 200 million dollars and they say gee what the heck is going on. I think a lot of -- does -- the state through your roughest. Is involved in some of that financing as I amnesty in the program you provide assistance to cities and towns who move forward to either. Rehab or build new schools could you tell us all about it could just give us a little little bit of background.

Yeah that in and in particular in the new case that there one bit Newton high school Newton north high schools one of the believe was above 425. Schools that we inherited when we took over the program from the Department of Education. They had given them approval to build a new school and our job was to come in and sort of finish that -- And then finance you know pay for the stage here based on a commitment that the deal we had date. And you know like a number of other schools. On that list and in previous it just guard. They've gone way over budget and that the project initially I think started at seven million it was a rehab. If that -- 4001000 new school. 14141. And then and now are on the expect -- to 297 is the estimated cost. A fortune when it comes to Newton because we inherited -- program it was -- grants are it and we we don't have the control. That we will have going forward with the schools to sort of rein in these clots. And keep done at at the a budget. It's too bad because. A lot of communities actually did. You know build new schools are renovated old schools -- and made the numbers work and kept the projects in under budget in and you know -- a reasonable cost but we we see it everywhere it -- cities and towns just can't afford. Local taxpayers can't afford to pay the cost. And in the case of -- they're going to be building a new high school laying off teachers at the same time which which to me and it should everywhere it just doesn't make any sense that --

That part of the story I really did I just found -- so work inconsistent that you make this major major capital expenditure and at the same time. Peeling off the most essential personnel teaches and and other support step. Tim I think it opens up that opens the question and I'm curious what you and your -- thinking as you talked about. Asserting control. All the communities for future projects. It do you have in the works in an idea about a standardization. Of designed -- designed so that you might pick. You know John Gonzales and Arab school committee somewhere heaven forbid that that should about that we should be given that responsibility. But that we might look at a portfolio of five or six designs but that if we decide to go extravagant and go for Graham gunned Taj Mahal. In our extravaganza. That that's on not and as opposed to -- you know ought to be our office and taxpayers everywhere Massachusetts.

Well -- it would we've we've we've probably. Moving to that in that direction we're certainly instituting standards and a square footage allow that allow moment allotment in and you know things that we feel that the party feels should be in schools and should we should be focused on building. We're not at the point yet where where we're offering plans off the shelf but we may end up there and and we certainly -- out by some communities. -- what we're trying to do I think the problem would do is we get into this. Processed very late in the game because again we get inherited this program and we got very little cooperation from the city in terms of allowing us to help -- rein in the costs in it would just too many things added into the school. That we're. Extravagant or bigger than needed to be or or more fancy and an eight in the design was very complicated added to the -- everything. So what we're doing now and I think this is gonna help an authority is helping -- is we're helping communities define what the problems before they come up with a solution. A lot of times it being sold these packages by architects. Or in the process of helping them design and solve the problem and and they come up with these. Alternatives which is it's a hundred million dollars to renovate your school 198 million dollars to build a new high school. And adequate community say well geez we'll we'll pick -- what Google is the new it's it's so close in price or even cheaper and what we find is most generally those numbers don't add up. So indicate to Wellesley which is the latest school that has come forward was a rather large. Price tag approaching 260 million dollars for the proposed high school we we're actually working with the -- working with the elected officials. And pushing back with just we're telling them even if the local community. Feel like they want to paper that we don't want to put that pressure on the local taxpayer and I think debt. Some of these building committee in school groups are really taking control. And then all the taxpayers afford stoop to pay the bill Donaldson out it's not just about -- share. Anymore about the whole project because. You know are -- obviously go up if the total cost goes up and I just don't think the local taxpayers can afford to do this in and then if forced to choose between building the school -- And then. It'll pay for the teachers which or pink fire fighters are in -- have to lay off personnel especially teachers I mean that's far more important to have good teachers and it is -- Have a beautiful building in my mind.

Mr. mr. -- and I appreciate the novelty of the the approach in the consideration for the you know everybody's involved you know not just the state taxpayers but -- that a local -- go -- you know I want to talk just just for a second about the infrastructure here in Massachusetts not very long ago the governor came out with a multi billion dollar plan to fix. The bridges and roads and certainly as somebody who travels over the long fell all the time. That's that's why I hope they -- effects and that they just shut it down for the fourth of July fireworks for -- initially. I was pretty concerned about where we're gonna come up with the money for a given the or running a deficit here in Massachusetts and I know. Mr. treasury that you had initially come out against it for. For -- I believe. Money reasons as well you're you're concerned but since you've decided the -- on board with that is that right now I was wondering if so you know what changed your mind.

Well of the of the project has been scaled down that's the first thing that that knows that can confessed that he -- personal we will -- Believe that that that the bridge repair program was necessary -- Actually proposed that of berry -- much smaller program back in January but 700 million dollar program using federal highway money. And X expediting. The return on -- sort of taking the money that was coming in -- he would start eroding using it today. Through. Get opportunities and the legislature in the governor's office came and went almost four billion dollar. Proposal in -- and then we spent a few months working on that refining it getting it down. To the point where we felt comfortable with the financing and getting the financing to work sort of we're using only transportation money. To repeat of these bridges as opposed to general obligation -- was two point -- about running a deficit in revenue is not coming and as robustly as they they have been all they might be going forward so we're gonna use some revenue from the gas tax. It will going to use some revenue from future federal highway reimbursements which means the Fed. Will be reimbursing ST 80% of the cost which makes a lot of sense because we're not paying for a -- that way. -- going to do a scaled down a skill that is still in Massachusetts very expensive -- three billion dollars. A but it's going to be done over eight years so what to vote. Approximately 350 to 400 million dollars a year that we will be fighting it saying. To do these bridges and I think it may accept a -- It's it's necessary. And if we don't. You know we don't tackle it today it's only going to cost more talk -- engineers the other veterans at a dinner. And they talked about the logical bridge and they -- of about ten years ago there was talk about fixing had a 56 million dollars. And now that -- in -- and now the crusted up about 250 billion.

I'll I'll -- they would kill for that 56 million battery now they ID you know you had mentioned also about. But to the deficit not having revenue coming in how how concerned is taxpayers should we do -- should we be. About the deficit that we're running here in Massachusetts and is there -- way. In your mind that we can get it under control and and you know myth not -- surplus of at least at least reduce a little bit.

Well on that very concerned and we're actually bringing in slightly more money this year then that we had projected. But we are -- a structural deficit so. That those two people really add up too much but what I'm worried about is that that. Revenue sources -- back in 2002001. I think it was. We had our best year revenue wherever just before we had a -- year. A revenue in the money just stopped coming in capital gains stride out after that Internet bubble popped and and I think that we could be looking at something similar to that. Going forward so we do have to keep -- spending. In line we have to be very careful auto -- in all but during the rainy day fund. And we have to be very careful Bob -- and too much money. And tying up our and to general revenue because if revenues but that it -- committed X number of dollars to -- not yet. Which is not going to be able to pay -- other thing that's going to increase a structural deficits are unconcerned. It would going to be into some rest sliding going forward into fiscal year or I think county are and I think it has said that a couple of times. That we could get spending under control tighten up if or we're gonna have some serious problems investors.

you remind me Tom Finneran again you remind -- you're mad at me -- you -- answer to John Gonzales about the scaled down bridge program. You would -- on the program with me when you made the pro proposal but at Fenway high highway money and not only did you make I thought what was a compelling point at the time about. He's either going to papered RE going to pay for laid out. You wait. The deterioration actually begins to accelerate and and the cost goes issues cent from 56 million Longfellow to north of 200 million because again the deterioration. That -- compound and he also made the point which I think is very important to people's he has at this moment. Tightly creating employment opportunities in Indian regions all around the state not just Boston centric but other parts of the state that are in desperate need these transportation repairs either desperate need of of jobs at you know at good wages so you know I I think you coming out of the box with that proposal helped ignite. What has been that seems to be a fruitful discussion I want to go back to the school program the school building situation with minimally Ellison doesn't have to be paying attention because we're going back and forth on -- subject to -- that's good for them. Rehab verses do as you when you -- begin to push back on the local communities in some of the immoral grandiose. Planning grandiose dreaming about what might be. And and their excitement at having does state somebody else they think pay for Osama. Is right now do you have a feel for. Whether rehab is really the more productive more efficient way to go for the taxpayers as well as the students -- Massachusetts. Or Koreas it's still a situation where. Most people are gonna opt in choose for the new because new becomes so much more persuasive.

It it's going to be that's going to be a real challenge for us so far in the first wave of our proposals. I think it worked. Of the eleven that we approved a month ago I think four or more new and seven of them were rehab. Renovations. And a great number more simply repair projects we've got that money out the door whether he roof repairs -- HPH he -- Minor stuff that is major and and what we're fighting -- a lot of these schools are deteriorating because the communities -- funding the maintenance. And are we carrying their -- and by the time they get to on the leaky -- have to grow as role in the whole building. So -- pushing back it depends. Artists situations sometimes. You know what we're doing it -- not just taking the community -- the architects. Viewpoint we're we have a staff in place and going out. Popular professionals or in the industry in we have some consultants that we better -- our payroll that are going out. Pushing back and looking is the school need to be totally be rebuilt. War can we fix it at a more reasonable cost and still have a beautiful building that's what's going on -- welcome right now it got in 1938 building. For the most part what would fighting -- a lot of schools have additions. And generally the more. Bought and traditions those 1960s or fifties additions with the worst parts to build. We're not built well and they were poorly planned so. It's a combination and I think you go to C has probably lean more to rehab. And what we're fighting his -- somebody -- have gotten very extravagant as well. They -- for the full dot rehab -- In many cases the classrooms are in good shape -- need to be painted maybe have the floor street and replaced what we're looking at a sporting and you know up to date science. Classrooms and -- swings and making sure that the technology is up to date but generally -- you'd find when you go into a school that you might not necessarily need. A new school. The problem that we have sometimes is especially with high schools. If -- single high schools in the community as we put the kids if you renovating. An added the biggest challenge in velvet trim middle school you can generally move kids out. Fix the school and move them back and that's what we see it work really well high schools it's a problem. Because you generally have no place to put the kids and you don't want if you can avoid the you don't want these kids to be living through 345 years of renovation. While you trying to teach them. And get them ready for college of for the workforce so that's that's where it's. A bit of a challenge for us but I think -- throw it. Electric that in many cases were pushing back we've got a great team led by Asian or jerked -- captain -- true. Very very why is incompetent in no. It is very willing to push back and what we're finding is you have to sometimes say no you just have to snake will not -- allow it if you want to build it on your own time. -- taxpayers to pay for it but as far as it that the state is committed. To have funding fifty or 67% of it we're gonna have some say it and I think the local taxpayers I heard from a lot of people in -- That would very frustrated by the process and felt like they had lost control. And I've also heard from a lot of people Wellesley that -- part of the process and don't know how we got from make. You know putting you know it may be a possibly -- reconstructed -- rehab. High school it'll bring a high -- 460 million in this thing we can't pay for -- we don't want to pay for so we're we're trying to listen to everybody not just. The school community but all of the taxpayers. In -- the school side and the city side of a community because sometimes those you know those who.

I don't know this -- beyond our -- you've got it. That's -- attempt so Tim -- it's concerned at this I think that we -- your on the show today yesterday I -- I'm sitting there and read in the newspapers as I generally doing them reenter the Harold might see the story by Dave wedge it says. Lieutenant governor had -- 175000. Dollars in two months but then you. Have three million dollars in the bank that you're still in the lead in that this is fueled sort of rumors that. That the governor may leave -- that you guys may run. For governor in the event that he does a leafs won my question is you know would you run for governor in 30 is that with this money is foreign to if not. Any chance I could get alone because that would be my rainy -- I had to I had -- that I could use the money option I don't have a lot of money here I've got after the -- but I gotta say -- you journalists can help itself cannot helmet as the treasure a couple of the guys it's I don't know why we Brothers devastation of bridges and use that it does it really we've -- let me know. He's listening -- we're big fans politics here. And this is this the kind of thing that -- interest and tell us that's also true.

Again no I I I've not hidden the fact that if if there was an open seat in 2000 and -- If the all -- doesn't run for reelection that I would certainly be something I would be interested in. I haven't made a decision yet and I'm not really thinking that closely about it but one way to prepare -- two. To raise money in -- kitten and it and put it aside and be ready if the opportunity comes. I I think he's going to serve -- his -- I don't know about reelection I mean I I don't know if anyone knows it is early. In offense although the day after you get really you get elected to a -- people start to speculate about the next one and but it is sport around here and you know I Temares a good person and I think he's doing a great job as lieutenant governor Martha -- doing great job as attorney general but. I think people tend to spend too much time. Speculating in the meteor -- about us. Not thinking that this probably someone else out there that no one's ever heard of the Deval Patrick was totally unheard of two years before the race and look where he ended up this thing -- I don't get too caught up in that I mean it's been very difficult for treasures attorney generals and anyone else street to move up. Historically so I don't take it for granted in and it's a different totally different jobs but. But I do love government that I like what they do and I think that. The fiscal conservatism that I bring to the table of the fiscal responsibility is something that we need in this state. And you know I guess it will depend on the types of things get really good and the money starts flowing and Biden know what's going to want to listen to a treasures saying be careful. And don't spend. If things get bad you know maybe people will listen and and and pay attention to what would be doing here in the treasurer's office and that -- May -- it's -- along poster on I don't think I'm allowed.

To politician we can change the rules and a veteran who will not talk to somebody on the hill trying to figure out some other financial operation god god doesn't -- and hire the lobbyists and all that and I did you see that there was -- nice honest answer isn't.

And cities and towns some of them at least having a tendency to minimize ought to just totally eliminate. Maintenance I'm curious about that because it's a point of -- a sore point with may. You know. Boston a Belgian town and everywhere in between. Because I think unfortunate we those of us who have served in government have that tendency. Almost all the time just to cut back. When you folks authorize a deal and get involved in some of the financing. Is the -- maintenance obligation that you you know have them contractually commit to is -- way for you to do that has -- ever been considered I'm just curious. Because you have to be as frustrated as I -- about.

Yet no we are considering that we are working with the local communities and making sure that if we build these schools they can be maintain especially the new schools. He surprised at what this new technology. You -- it -- no one there. That's trained -- qualified -- energy it. And and they can't turn on the AC and Ken Anderson building properly ball comes up beat not because it was constructed right but because it's not. Run right without looking at at maintenance funds and how communities have historically. Taking care of their -- I've just got -- rushing. Technical school. Up -- up in the brought in cherishing technical high school we present them with somebody for eight. We care group -- They've got a fantastic job Charlie I just runs this I was gonna say that's going to be telling. You a fantastic job of -- and maintaining the school. Making it run right. Using the technical expertise and the students to really keep it up to date and make the money go very far and they are committed. Two they have a capital. Find within this school and they are committed to it every year so that they put money aside. And put it into that building maybe it was amazing indicate to us is that if you just give us -- money to fix the roof. Everything else is fine. It was an arcade not a huge amount of money. And it's going to go a long way to a school that was probably built. 4050 years ago so what we're trying to do is reward the community that have done by done the right thing. And not reward those communities -- just what the buildings -- are some interpret that is what happens in this business you reward that the bad players. Who are you know come here and whatever with us directly with somebody -- sure yes so what we are in what we're doing to it content device was located direct reimbursement rate. If you show us and prove to us that you have a maintenance plan in place to. So there's an incentive -- does not just a punishment it's sort of a carrot and stick approach would say if you show us. -- money aside commit to what this maintenance is going to go forward in this building will give you complexion percentage points and reimbursement.

You know that's the kind of real professionalism and efficiency that I think taxpayers assume never never happens -- happening here that. You know you're a scene from you know place the place Charlie Lyons a picture I -- I sobre I think it was Whitman he answered. Yeah brute beautiful school down the had built on time under budget it is gorgeous I mean not wanted to go back for schools are good.

Slowly and we got ya I really excited about it will will will we going to make it work we're committed to look at and I are.

Well I commend you when you team Catherine -- dimension -- Katharine Graham and John Gonzales and I appreciative of all the time give give us just the treasurer Andrew.